[Campaigns-l] Progressive Thought

[Chad Lupkes]

Ben, I think your final phrase runs counter to your position.

"What do y'all think?"

Wikipedia is answering the question: What do you know?

Wikicampaigns is answer the question: What do you think?

Both gives people the ability to make their own infrastructure, either on
facts or opinions.  That's the strength of the wiki systems.


On 7/6/06, Ben Hubbird <hubbird at efn.org> wrote:
>
> I like this idea a lot. The more that this can be a roadmap to the
> political landscape, rather than just another collection of billboards
> along the way, the more valuable and important it will be. I don't think
> this SHOULD be a forum for discussion of "issues", as issues are merely
> those prepackaged, focus grouped items that poll well with a politician's
> target demographic.
>
> Politicians love issues (especially bivalent ones) because they are easy.
> We should hate them because they insult our intelligence as citizens and
> perpetuate the myth that we are divided by some impermeable ideological
> barrier.
>
> Seems like the questions we should be answering are not "Who's right,
> who's wrong?" It should be abundantly clear to anyone who has even a
> modest political awareness that NOBODY is "right".
>
> We should instead ask: "What should politics look like, if not the current
> system? How can we get there?"
>
> A section on how campaigns are run might be a first step -- nothing
> impacts the current shape of the political debate more than the dirty
> games it takes to get into office.
>
> What do y'all think?
>
> Ben Hubbird
>
> George Murray said:
> > One of my concerns with the current political process is the use of
> > framing
> > [see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(communication_theory) ] and
> > buzzwords to redefine the problems rather than solve them.
> >
> > Campaigns Wikia could be a great way to "cut through" the redefinition
> > these
> > politicians do by taking whatever the latest buzzwords are and having an
> > up-to-date record of their use and redefinition over time.
> >
> > Just a thought,
> > -gmurray
> >
> > On 7/6/06, Chad Lupkes <chadlupkes at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Something this wiki is going to be able to do is define our terms for
> >> the
> >> ongoing discussion.  And the people who show up and make the edits will
> >> do
> >> the defining instead of paid political operatives looking to spin
> things
> >> one
> >> direction or the other.
> >>
> >> Chad
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/6/06, Ed Rodgers <ed.rodgers at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > i think you misunderstood my meaning of progressive.
> >> >
> >> > by progressive i mean moving beyond the process currently in place by
> >> > utilizing tools available to us in order to better understand
> >> > political and governmental decisions.
> >> >
> >> > i wasnt saying 'go out and buy every howard zinn book, now!' :)
> >> >
> >> > and now we see one of the drawbacks to internet based discussion -
> >> > comprehension of rhetoric.
> >> >
> >> > we are progressing past television advertisements
> >> > we are progressing to form an online community of thought
> contributors
> >> > we are progressing toward a focus on the topics at hand
> >> > it is a progressive movement, label it wikigressive so that it may
> not
> >> > be misconstrued.
> >> >
> >> > stay tuned; same discussion to follow on democratic vs democratic.
> >> >
> >> > On 7/6/06, Peter Saint-Andre < stpeter at jabber.org> wrote:
> >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> > > Hash: SHA1
> >> > >
> >> > > Ed Rodgers wrote:
> >> > > > I'm very happy as well that boing boing pointed me to this
> >> > wiki.  It's
> >> > > > yet another way to further progressive thought using the tools at
> >> > our
> >> > > > disposal.
> >> > >
> >> > > My sense from the mission statement Jimbo wrote is that we're
> trying
> >> > to
> >> > > open up the political process and make the political debate more
> >> > > objective -- not that we're trying to further progressive, liberal,
> >> > > libertarian, conservative, green, socialist, communist (etc.)
> >> thought
> >> > or
> >> > > ideology or movements.
> >> > >
> >> > > Peter
> >> > >
> >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin)
> >> > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> >> > >
> >> > > iD8DBQFErVJANF1RSzyt3NURAsuAAKDJBZXNrGt9PpG4MOfLMCQeeAC4YACgw8Cv
> >> > > vxEaYEMCl92elW7kUs5oubE=
> >> > > =hzWb
> >> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
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> >> > > Campaigns-l at wikia.com
> >> > > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Chad Lupkes
> >> Democracy for Washington
> >> http://www.democracyforwashington.com
> >> Progressive Democratic Caucuses of Washington
> >> http://pdcw.org
> >>
> >> If Democrats have a pre-911 view of the world, Republicans have a
> >> pre-July
> >> 4th view of the world.  Go back to King George, shall we?  Not while
> I'm
> >> still breathing.
> >>
> >> The purpose of a political party is to turn the views and values of its
> >> members into public policy. - Russel Wallace, Democracy for Wisconsin
> >>
> >> Blah, blah, blah!!!  What do we do about it!!
> >>
> >> Anyone want a roll-top desk?
> >> http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/fur/178052982.html
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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>
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-- 
Chad Lupkes
Democracy for Washington
http://www.democracyforwashington.com
Progressive Democratic Caucuses of Washington
http://pdcw.org

If Democrats have a pre-911 view of the world, Republicans have a pre-July
4th view of the world.  Go back to King George, shall we?  Not while I'm
still breathing.

The purpose of a political party is to turn the views and values of its
members into public policy. - Russel Wallace, Democracy for Wisconsin

Blah, blah, blah!!!  What do we do about it!!

Anyone want a roll-top desk?
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/fur/178052982.html
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