[Campaigns-l] My 2 cents

[Geddes Munson]

Hi - I am probably not worthy of posting to this list since I don't
maintain a political website, or contribute much to wikipedia, but I
am very interested in improving political discourse in our country,
and see this very exciting wiki as a possible way to do that. I would
like to help where I can.

I also like Jamie's idea, and I think that Dustin is absolutely right
that the separation of fact vs. opinion is the biggest hurdle to jump.
There is of course a gray area between the two, that can't be avoided,
but blatant cases of opinion are already showing up on what one would
think should be factual pages. Look at this for example:

http://campaigns.wikia.com/index.php?title=No_Child_Left_Behind&oldid=2688

The article has a subtitle "Many Children Left Behind" and starts "The
No Child Left Behind Program is an unfortunate program that compounds
what is already wrong with our schools." This is a blatant case of
opinion, and should, in my opinion, have no place in the article, at
least not unless there is a section labled "opinion." The article
should be a summary of what the law actually mandates, a list of who
voted for it and who voted against it, a link to a transcript of the
floor debate, etc.

On the other hand, I really like what I am seeing on this page:

http://campaigns.wikia.com/wiki/Gay_marriage

With points for, points against, and counter-points. No one has yet
put more than a sentence in for the arguments against, but the point
is the room is there and once this site is more than a day old,
someone is bound to do it. This seems to be a mix of fact and opinion
that gel together nicely.

Is the solution to have two versions for every page : Issue_facts and
issue_opinion? I'm not sure.

 - Geddes

On 7/6/06, alucard996 <alucard996 at wi.rr.com> wrote:
> I absolutely love this idea, even if it is only part of the bigger
> picture. Keep strictly to what each candidate has said (quotes w/
> source) and done (vote records w/source) and let people decipher the
> information for themselves and/or talk about it somewhere else. I think
> separation of fact and opinion is the biggest hurtle to jump over here
> and the best way to do it is to keep the wiki completely factual -
> things that can be proved without a shadow of a doubt via documented
> evidence.
>
> Maybe there should be some sort of explicit distinction between pages
> that contain fact and ones that contain opinion.
>
> - Dustin
>
> Jamie Baswell wrote:
> > I think the wiki portion should be as factual as possible.
> >
> > What I'd love to see:
> >
> > Name
> >
> > Biography
> > -- Written by himself or supporters. Not a political history, which
> > will be covered later, but a simple history, where they're from, what
> > schools they attended, generic stuff like that.
> >
> > Voting Record
> > -- List of voting history, if any.  Each entry can be a simple item
> > number and how they voted.  Each item number can itself be a link to a
> > different Wiki entry containing a summary of the bill and what various
> > candidates have said about it, if anything.
> >
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > [Bill 90210] - Voted NO
> > "I voted no on this because of a rider that required all California
> > residents to replace their cars with penguins." - Mr. Candidate, New
> > York Times interview, 1997
> > [Bill OU812] - Voted YES
> > "I voted yes on this because I think it's important to save the Alaska
> > Salmon." - Mr. Candidate, Campaign Wikia, 2006
> >
> >
> > If you click on [Bill 90210], you should get at least a brief summary
> > of what it was, and Mr. Candidate's comments should be echoed on that
> > page, along with the comments of every other candidate who had
> > anything to say about it.
> >
> > So we can see what Mr. Candidate said about it on his page or we can
> > click on the item and see what everyone said about it.
> >
> > This list should be a community effort, not just up to the campaigner
> > to post the ones he wants to popularize.  If he voted NO on something
> > 30 years ago and wants to comment about how he would vote YES now if
> > given a chance, he or his supporters can add comments to that effect,
> > but the fact that he did vote NO should remain on the page.
> >
> >
> > Other sections could include memorable quotes (with references) links
> > to speeches, debate transcripts, etc.
> >
> >
> > The bottom line for me is I would love to be able to see that Joe Blow
> > is running for governor or whatever, then go here and type "Joe Blow"
> > and see a list of things he's voted on in the past, what
> > those things actually were about, anything he had to say about it, etc.
> >
> > Comments from random people should be left to the forums.  Comments
> > from opponets should be made on their own page, not here.
> >
> > e.g.
> > [Bill 90210] - Voted NO
> > "I voted no on this because of a rider that required all California
> > residents to replace their cars with penguins." - Mr. Candidate, 1997
> > "You voted no because you fear change and you're racist against
> > penguins." - Mr. Opponet, 2006
> >
> > The second comment should be deleted, since creating a Debate Wiki
> > would just be ugly.  Mr. Opponet can write a speech about it and link
> > that seperately on his own page if he'd like.
> >
> > Similarly:
> > [Bill 90210] - Voted NO
> > "I voted no on this because of a rider that required all California
> > residents to replace their cars with penguins.  Mr. Opponet has no
> > respect for the rights of modern Californians to not be subjected to
> > the daily abuse of penguins." - Mr. Candidate, 1997
> >
> > That should be trimmed down to read as it was before.  The second
> > sentence is not directly relevant to why he voted NO and just invites
> > a mid-wiki flamewar.
> >
> > The tighter we keep it to the relevant facts, I think, the better.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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