[Campaigns-l] Progressive Thought

Thu Jul 6 22:02:40 UTC 2006

I don't think there's anything counter to my position inherent in asking
what people think about what I'm saying.

I guess part of the reason we have a misunderstanding is that we're
talking about opinions. I am honestly not a big believer in "objectivity".
Facts are great, but boring. Information -- retainable, emotionally
compelling information -- is always presented as a narrative, and that
narrative ALWAYS has a built in bias. Campaigns are all about telling
stories: the personal story of the candidate, the "horse race" story of
the campaign, the disingenuous apocryphal anecdotes of the stump speech.

Opinions are just the stories we tell about ourselves. A huge part of the
problem with American politics today is that we have become a nation of
plagiarists when it comes to these stories.

The Democratic story, the Republican story, the Libertarian story, the
Green story, the Progressive story, the Conservative story, the Liberal
story, the Anarchist story. That's about it. We all tell one of these
stories because we don't have the political vocabulary to tell any others.

What I was trying to communicate with my first post is that we need to
develop our political lexicon into a meaninful tool that we can use to
describe a multitude of ideological stories -- as many stories as there
are citizens -- not just a handful defined and coopted by political
strategists. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that is roughly what George
was trying to suggest as something this Wiki can tackle.

Ben.

Chad Lupkes said:
> Ben, I think your final phrase runs counter to your position.
>
> "What do y'all think?"
>
> Wikipedia is answering the question: What do you know?
>
> Wikicampaigns is answer the question: What do you think?
>
> Both gives people the ability to make their own infrastructure, either on
> facts or opinions.  That's the strength of the wiki systems.
>
>
> On 7/6/06, Ben Hubbird <hubbird at efn.org> wrote:
>>
>> I like this idea a lot. The more that this can be a roadmap to the
>> political landscape, rather than just another collection of billboards
>> along the way, the more valuable and important it will be. I don't think
>> this SHOULD be a forum for discussion of "issues", as issues are merely
>> those prepackaged, focus grouped items that poll well with a
>> politician's
>> target demographic.
>>
>> Politicians love issues (especially bivalent ones) because they are
>> easy.
>> We should hate them because they insult our intelligence as citizens and
>> perpetuate the myth that we are divided by some impermeable ideological
>> barrier.
>>
>> Seems like the questions we should be answering are not "Who's right,
>> who's wrong?" It should be abundantly clear to anyone who has even a
>> modest political awareness that NOBODY is "right".
>>
>> We should instead ask: "What should politics look like, if not the
>> current
>> system? How can we get there?"
>>
>> A section on how campaigns are run might be a first step -- nothing
>> impacts the current shape of the political debate more than the dirty
>> games it takes to get into office.
>>
>> What do y'all think?
>>
>> Ben Hubbird
>>
>> George Murray said:
>> > One of my concerns with the current political process is the use of
>> > framing
>> > [see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(communication_theory) ]
>> and
>> > buzzwords to redefine the problems rather than solve them.
>> >
>> > Campaigns Wikia could be a great way to "cut through" the redefinition
>> > these
>> > politicians do by taking whatever the latest buzzwords are and having
>> an
>> > up-to-date record of their use and redefinition over time.
>> >
>> > Just a thought,
>> > -gmurray
>> >
>> > On 7/6/06, Chad Lupkes <chadlupkes at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Something this wiki is going to be able to do is define our terms for
>> >> the
>> >> ongoing discussion.  And the people who show up and make the edits
>> will
>> >> do
>> >> the defining instead of paid political operatives looking to spin
>> things
>> >> one
>> >> direction or the other.
>> >>
>> >> Chad
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/6/06, Ed Rodgers <ed.rodgers at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > i think you misunderstood my meaning of progressive.
>> >> >
>> >> > by progressive i mean moving beyond the process currently in place
>> by
>> >> > utilizing tools available to us in order to better understand
>> >> > political and governmental decisions.
>> >> >
>> >> > i wasnt saying 'go out and buy every howard zinn book, now!' :)
>> >> >
>> >> > and now we see one of the drawbacks to internet based discussion -
>> >> > comprehension of rhetoric.
>> >> >
>> >> > we are progressing past television advertisements
>> >> > we are progressing to form an online community of thought
>> contributors
>> >> > we are progressing toward a focus on the topics at hand
>> >> > it is a progressive movement, label it wikigressive so that it may
>> not
>> >> > be misconstrued.
>> >> >
>> >> > stay tuned; same discussion to follow on democratic vs democratic.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 7/6/06, Peter Saint-Andre < stpeter at jabber.org> wrote:
>> >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> >> > > Hash: SHA1
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Ed Rodgers wrote:
>> >> > > > I'm very happy as well that boing boing pointed me to this
>> >> > wiki.  It's
>> >> > > > yet another way to further progressive thought using the tools
>> at
>> >> > our
>> >> > > > disposal.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > My sense from the mission statement Jimbo wrote is that we're
>> trying
>> >> > to
>> >> > > open up the political process and make the political debate more
>> >> > > objective -- not that we're trying to further progressive,
>> liberal,
>> >> > > libertarian, conservative, green, socialist, communist (etc.)
>> >> thought
>> >> > or
>> >> > > ideology or movements.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Peter
>> >> > >
>> >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> >> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin)
>> >> > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>> >> > >
>> >> > > iD8DBQFErVJANF1RSzyt3NURAsuAAKDJBZXNrGt9PpG4MOfLMCQeeAC4YACgw8Cv
>> >> > > vxEaYEMCl92elW7kUs5oubE=
>> >> > > =hzWb
>> >> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
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>> >> > > Campaigns-l at wikia.com
>> >> > > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Chad Lupkes
>> >> Democracy for Washington
>> >> http://www.democracyforwashington.com
>> >> Progressive Democratic Caucuses of Washington
>> >> http://pdcw.org
>> >>
>> >> If Democrats have a pre-911 view of the world, Republicans have a
>> >> pre-July
>> >> 4th view of the world.  Go back to King George, shall we?  Not while
>> I'm
>> >> still breathing.
>> >>
>> >> The purpose of a political party is to turn the views and values of
>> its
>> >> members into public policy. - Russel Wallace, Democracy for Wisconsin
>> >>
>> >> Blah, blah, blah!!!  What do we do about it!!
>> >>
>> >> Anyone want a roll-top desk?
>> >> http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/fur/178052982.html
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Campaigns-l mailing list
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>> >> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Chad Lupkes
> Democracy for Washington
> http://www.democracyforwashington.com
> Progressive Democratic Caucuses of Washington
> http://pdcw.org
>
> If Democrats have a pre-911 view of the world, Republicans have a pre-July
> 4th view of the world.  Go back to King George, shall we?  Not while I'm
> still breathing.
>
> The purpose of a political party is to turn the views and values of its
> members into public policy. - Russel Wallace, Democracy for Wisconsin
>
> Blah, blah, blah!!!  What do we do about it!!
>
> Anyone want a roll-top desk?
> http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/fur/178052982.html
> _______________________________________________
> Campaigns-l mailing list
> Campaigns-l at wikia.com
> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
>