[Campaigns-l] The Ex-Speakers Speak With One Voice on theSorryState of Congress

[Stephen Abbott]

Again, if you want to call Bush a dictator, and imply he's built a police
state in which political prisoners exist, that's fine. You have that right.
Be aware that others have the right to call that view slightly insane and
extremely paranoid.

And can I suggest that you not condemn others for "name-calling" at the same
time as you engage in politically-charged name-calling? It kind of hints at
hypocrisy.

I'll also stick by my position here that none of this has a place on the
wiki and can only cause strong, viceral reactions. All (percieved) nonsense
will get a strong reaction, usually heavily weighted with partisan rhetoric
on both sides. Again, this doesn't seem to be the place for it.

Some people like to call anyone who wants to have clear mission statements
and a clearly defined vision for a wiki - or anything else - a "censor"
who's trying to supposedly shut down any debate.

This is ludicrous, and again, hypocritical, since you seem to want to shut
my view down and impose your own views on the wiki that it should be a forum
for partisan rancor.

Some major political players just got together to form a new politically
oriented website devoted to engaging both sides in debates over the election
process. You may have seen the announcement here. Well, do you think they'll
spend any time arguing about abortion, Kyoto, gay rights, etc? Nope. That
would be pointless, since they already know where they stand.

I stupidly thought this wiki was the place where we could also leave
political rhetoric at the door and talk about the process itself. I wonder
if its founder had that in mind, too? Maybe Jimmy wants to weigh in. Either
now or in two years, his choice.

Stephen A.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Slije" <slije at comcast.net>
To: <campaigns-l at wikia.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Campaigns-l] The Ex-Speakers Speak With One Voice on
theSorryState of Congress


> On Thu July 13 2006 3:37pm, Stephen Abbott wrote:
> > And I have to ask Slije: If citizens can't change the political system,
why
> > are we here?
>
> Citizens can change the political system, but I don't believe they can do
so
> substantially from within the traditional system anymore, or even through
> voting, which has been compromised by serious fraud.  I believe politics
in
> this country has become an entertainment industry, something to keep us
> occupied while the decisions that effect us are kept out of our reach.  We
> are fast becoming the Cuba you speak of in very tangible ways.  If you
don't
> see this, I would suggest you expand the sources of your information,
despite
> how uncomfortable that can be.  A disconnect has developed between the
people
> and their government, and it is growing.
>
> > For the record, we live in a system that doesn't function properly. Not
by
> > a long stretch of the imagination do we live in a totalitarian state.
That
> > would be Cuba, the Worker's Paradise (also a one-party state in which
free
> > speech is suppressed, along with religion and the right to feed one's
> > family. Check it out.)
>
> If you believe we have free speech in this country, you are deceived.  It
is
> still freer than some countries, in some ways, and less free than others.
> Try investigating the crimes of our government and other abuses, and then
see
> how free it feels.  So long as you aren't speaking controversially or
against
> those in power, it feels free.  There are others in this country who are
> experiencing it very differently, and are feeling great pressure against
> their speech.  Some have become political prisoners for it, and remain in
> prison to this day.
>
> > Ranting about how Bush is a dictator who wants to start a nuclear war to
> > hold onto power and listing all the stories the government is
"suppressing"
> > is leftist nonsense that has no place in that discussion, AND nor does
> > right-wing nonsense, for that matter.
> >
>
> If you're refering to me, I didn't raise my voice.  I was merely sharing
what
> I see as a logical and present danger.  It frightens me too, but I have no
> wish to close my eyes to what I see, and I will share my view with others.
> You don't have to agree, and are welcome to share your own.
>
> > We're trying to get AWAY from all the shouting, ranting and hysterical
> > conspiracy theories, not invite it all to become part of the wiki.
>
> Perhaps you should speak for yourself without presuming to speak for
others.
> You want to reform politics to include the grass roots "crazy bloggers"
while
> remaining non-controversial?  Good luck with that.  I prefer to be more
> inclusive, to censor nothing, and to keep my eyes and ears wide open.
>
> >Why are you posting to this wikia and to this list AT ALL?
>
> To explore how politics can be reformed to give everyone a voice and a
say,
> without bullying and name-calling.
>
> Slije
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