[Campaigns-l] Help a good cause and get a look at a wikidrivenletter writing campaign.

Thu Oct 19 20:43:18 UTC 2006

Rev. King,

Thanks for the engaging discussion.  My goal is to try and steer
conversations into a positive direction, and I'm glad to see that you
are willing to do that as well.

Getting rid of the soundbyte culture is what we are all about.  They
are too easy to use, and contribute nothing new to the discussion.

Everyone on this list, and I would dare to say everyone everywhere,
wants this basic truth to be part of the discussion.  We want the
world that our children will grow up in to be a better world than the
one that we live in.  That is what Jesus wanted, that is what Mohammed
wanted, that's what Buddha wanted.  Let's find a way to make it
reality instead of a dream.

At the same time, none of us should paint with such a broad brush.
There are Catholic organizations that are pro-choice as well.
Sojourners is a Evangelical Christian organization that probably
wouldn't agree with that paint either.  I don't know how Islam or
Buddhism deal with the question, and I don't want to guess.  I'm glad
that the Democrats for Life organization exists, and I wish that
Pro-choice Republicans were welcomed alongside the Log Cabin
Republicans.  They're not, as evidenced by the antics that occured in
New York in 2004.  So let's not kid ourselves.

The main question right now is how we create an article on Campaigns
Wikia that allows for the diversity of backgrounds and opinions,
without limiting the discussion to soundbytes.  Abortion is not my top
issue, so I'm not a good person to "debate" with on the subject.  I
can't back up facts and I can't defend myself against all the fiction
that is out there.  So I don't bother most of the time.

But we don't want to use this mailing list as the debate platform.  It
will drive people away, and in fact already has.  And it will polarize
the membership.  That is to be avoided at all costs.  I hope you
agree.  There are literally thousands of mailing lists out there for
specific issue based discussions, so let's leave it there.

Please post some information about your organization on the site.  I'd
like to learn more.

Chad Lupkes
Volunteer Admin - Campaigns Wikia.

On 10/19/06, CH Rob J King <kuriosiesuschristos at abidinglifephoenix.com> wrote:
>
>
> Chad,
>
>
> Thank you for your open and challenging commentary.  If all political
> discourse could be handled at this level (rather than "sound-bytes") than we
> would have a more JUST society because opposing sides could better unite
> around the common ground of TRUTH found in the other's political convictions
> (e.g. Republicans agreeing with Senator Kennedy's advocacy for the working
> poor and Democrats agreeing with President Bush's Pro-Life stance).
>
> I will not go into the explicitly religious side of the debate other than to
> say that Jews, Christians, Muslems and Buddhists are all firmly pro-life,
> and yes the "elite" few do try to dictate law on top of such a religious
> majority (imposed secularism that tries to silence any perspective other
> than its own, a raw "will to power" on secularism's part critiqued firmly by
> French secular post-modern philosopher Michel Foucault).
>
> Concerning abortion, all that you have mentioned is also correct, and a
> group called "Democrats for Life"
> http://www.democratsforlife.org/ is trying to limit the
> need for abortions.
>
> Thank you for the dialogue, and let's keep in touch
> http://abidinglifephoenix.com/aboutus.aspx (I work some
> with Mark Klein, MD whose ads/blogs appear regularly in The Washington
> Times)
>
> Blessings,
>
> Rob J. King
> CH Rob J. King, M.Div., Th.M., Ph.D. (ABD*)
> Chaplain, 345th, AR-MEDCOM
> Professor of Bible and Christian Ministry Grand Canyon University-Online
> Abiding Life Christian Ministries--Phoenix
> http://abidinglifephoenix.com/default.aspx
> kuriosiesuschristos at abidinglifephoenix.com
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Chad Lupkes" <chadlupkes at gmail.com>
> Reply-To: campaigns-l at wikia.com
> To: campaigns-l at wikia.com
> CC: srjacinta at fw.diocesefwsb.org, RandallTerry at aol.com,
> KenMehlman at gop.com,Chaplaincy at spirit-filled.org
> Subject: Re: [Campaigns-l] Help a good cause and get a look at a
> wikidrivenletter writing campaign.
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:17:02 -0700
>
> >Rob,
> >
> >Doesn't the Bible teach that life begins at the first breath? Isn't
> >part of the mythology that Mary had to decide whether or not to end
> >her pregnancy? Or at least whether Joseph would stay with Mary
> >until
> >the child was born?
> >
> >If it is against the Western tradition to "kill babies" or (my
> >addition) allow them to be killed, why don't our laws require that
> >all
> >children receive free health care paid for by the community from the
> >moment of conception to the moment of natural death? Why aren't we
> >do
> >everything in our power to prevent abortions by teaching our
> >teenagers
> >about birth control along side the "just say no" concept that is
> >failing us so badly?
> >
> >I'll tell you why. Because the Catholic Church teaches that we will
> >pay for our sins in some future eternity, and that any suffering
> >that
> >we have to endure in this life is insignificant. The same mentality
> >teaches radical Muslims that their reward in a future life will be
> >beyond their imagination if they create suffering for their enemies
> >in
> >this life.
> >
> >It's a lie. It's a tool used to encourage the domination of the
> >many
> >under the hand of the few. It's a justification used to force
> >people
> >to tolerate the intolerable, to allow the inexcusable and to
> >accomplish the unthinkable.
> >
> >We have one world. This one. We have one life to have an influence
> >over. This one. The Bible tells us to be "fruitful and multiply".
> >It does not tell us to be fruitful and multiply to the point that
> >our
> >population numbers make life unbearable and unsustainable. G-d set
> >the rules of the game, and has granted us with free will to play the
> >game. If we destroy the game board, G-d is not going to save us.
> >He
> >will wait a few million years and try again with a new species. He
> >has all the time in the Universe. We don't.
> >
> >I will agree to a 100% ban on abortions when we have completely
> >eliminated unwanted pregnancy from the earth. If we could work
> >together, we could do both. Big "IF", isn't it.
> >
> >Chad Lupkes
> >Volunteer Admin - Campaigns Wikia
> >
> >On 10/19/06, CH Rob J King
> ><kuriosiesuschristos at abidinglifephoenix.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>Jennifer,
> >>
> >>When I first read your Wiki-campaign e-mail, I thought what a
> >>wonderful idea
> >>to seek multi-partisanship! Indeed, issues such as the
> >>Environment, a
> >>Living Wage and the War in Iraq are obviously not just Republican
> >>or
> >>Democrat or Independent issues because they affect everyone (no
> >>clean water
> >>in the Desert SouthWest = Environmental catastrophe!).
> >>
> >>Concerning the killing of babies, however, a practice condemned
> >>throughout
> >>the history of the Western legal tradition (from the 4th century
> >>under the
> >>Roman Emperor Constantine, throughout the history of Europe and N.
> >>America
> >>and well into the 20th century prior to 1972), this is an issue
> >>where no
> >>common ground can be found.
> >>
> >>For example, the Catholic Church, an organization that has 1
> >>billion members
> >>firmly condemns this practice as an intrinsically evil act.
> >>Similarly,
> >>Pentecostal Christianity, a type of religious expression with 500
> >>million+
> >>members, also firmly condemns this practice as murder. In that the
> >>United
> >>States with a population of only 300 million, and by a vote of only
> >>5-4 in
> >>Roe v. Wade has wrongly determined that babies deserve no legal
> >>protection
> >>to live, the burden of proof now lies with the United States of
> >>America in
> >>demonstrating why the lives of babies should not be protected.
> >>Indeed, even
> >>Islam and Buddhism, two other major world religions have similar
> >>prohibitions against taking the lives of babies.
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>
> >>Rob J. King, Republican
> >>
> >>cc: Randall Terry, Pro-Life Activist
> >>
> >> Ken Mehlman, Chair of the Republican National Committee
> >>
> >> Dave Plummer, Coalition of Spirit-Filled Churches
> >>
> >> Sr. Jacinta Krecek, OSF, Diocese of South Bend/Ft. Wayne
> >>
> >>
> >>CH Rob J. King, M.Div., Th.M., Ph.D. (ABD*)
> >>Chaplain, 345th, AR-MEDCOM
> >>Professor of Bible and Christian Ministry Grand Canyon
> >>University-Online
> >>Abiding Life Christian Ministries--Phoenix
> >>http://abidinglifephoenix.com/default.aspx
> >>kuriosiesuschristos at abidinglifephoenix.com
> >>
> >>________________________________
> >>From: "Jennifer M." <jenniferforunity at gmail.com>
> >>Reply-To: campaigns-l at wikia.com
> >>To: campaigns-l at wikia.com
> >>Subject: [Campaigns-l] Help a good cause and get a look at a wiki
> >>drivenletter writing campaign.
> >>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:34:06 -0700
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Hi guys,
> >>I know this isn't totally on topic for this list, but you guys are
> >>totally
> >>tapped into wikis and it seemed like you might be interested. I've
> >>been
> >>working on a letter writing campaign for the last 40 hours and a
> >>wiki turned
> >>out to be the most useful part of it... and it's taught me that it
> >>maybe
> >>would be good to have some templates laying around a wiki to make
> >>something
> >>like this easier to throw together. You might be curious even if
> >>you're not
> >>interested in the political cause itself just because this might
> >>become a
> >>standard part of campaigns wikia as it grows and evolves. Anyway,
> >>I'll cut
> >>to the political blurb now :-)
> >>
> >>...
> >>
> >>Harry Welty is a Congressional Candidate running to represent
> >>Duluth,
> >>Minnesota. He's also affiliated himself with Unity08 and the Unity
> >>Movement,
> >>a multipartisan movement with the goal of getting national
> >>attention off
> >>divisive issues like abortion and onto issues that will seriously
> >>affect the
> >>welfare of Americans for generations to come, like the massive
> >>National Debt
> >>that threatens to fiscally cripple the U.S. just in time for our
> >>young
> >>people to inherit it.
> >>
> >>If this is the first time you've heard about Harry Welty you can
> >>get a quick
> >>one page summary with links to his blog and his campaign website at
> >>this
> >>website:
> >>
> >>http://unitysupporters.com/wiki/index.php?title=Harry_Welty
> >>
> >>Harry was been told by the Duluth News Tribune and the local public
> >>television station WDSE PBS-8 that he can't debate because he
> >>doesn't belong
> >>to a political party that fielded a candidate who won at least 5%
> >>of the
> >>vote in the previous election. 14 years ago Harry Welty ran as an
> >>*unknown*
> >>independent against Oberstar and took 7% of the vote. Since then
> >>he's served
> >>on the Duluth School Board and been a columnist for The Reader
> >>Weekly. *So
> >>far* that doesn't matter to the people in charge of the debates
> >>(but we're
> >>trying to change that).
> >>
> >>The decision makers seem to care about political machinery instead
> >>of
> >>people, parties instead of candidates. It's not right. Harry
> >>deserves a
> >>chance in the debates. Please forward this email to everyone you
> >>know who
> >>might be interested. Then go to the link below and learn about
> >>emails and
> >>phone calls you can make to try to help Harry get chance in the
> >>debates:
> >>
> >>http://unitysupporters.com/wiki/index.php?title=Letter_Campaign_For_Harry_Welty
> >>
> >>Thanks for taking the time to read this, thanks for taking the time
> >>to pass
> >>this on, and thanks for visiting the link above and doing something
> >>to help
> >>Harry. Please do it fast. The debates are on Friday, October 20,
> >>2006 and
> >>after that point forwarding this or sending email won't be very
> >>useful.
> >>
> >>
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >Campaigns-l mailing list
> >> >Campaigns-l at wikia.com
> >> >http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Campaigns-l mailing list
> >>Campaigns-l at wikia.com
> >>http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Campaigns-l mailing list
> >Campaigns-l at wikia.com
> >http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Campaigns-l mailing list
> Campaigns-l at wikia.com
> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
>
>
>