<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffcc" text="#000066">
<font size="-1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">One
campaigns Wikia with all entries being propagated into each of the
languages maintained, a multi directional many flow back and forth
across the barrier of languages? Is this possible? If so, it would be
the ultimate victory over the Tower of Babel problem that has divided
global humanity from each other making us captive to whatever our
broadcast institutions (notice I do not restrict this to "new" though
it is the commonest) what bilingual authors are willing or allowed to
publish in book form.<br>
<br>
As this wikia started in English, and the momentum is still there,
there is likely to be English translated out for some time. Yet I would
*love* to see an edit made by a resident of China or Russia or Hungary
which has been translated back to us in English! Hot damn, it doesn't
get any better than that! If such wikians were to develop huge sections
of local issues and campaigns, I would be an avid reader. <br>
<br>
I'm sorry if I am being a dunce here, I was in a rush when I read this
thread, but how do we get to the idea of closed Campaign Wikias, by
language or any other factor. Is this not contrary to the very essence
of wiki-ness, not to mention some aspects of the Mission Statement?
Please don't be aggravated if I am being clueless. I have missed
something, I'm sure, and I apologize.<br>
<br>
Becky<br>
BbbOK<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></font>Jennifer M. wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid8666a1420608022009x19c6775do5e00f9d59a80a783@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">It seems to me that there will be recurring themes in any
discussion of immigration policy: the desire to preserve the the native
culture in the face of immigration by people with a different culture,
the increase of a supply of labor with the attendant economic impacts
(or the net outflow that some nations are experiencing with another set
of impacts). Those processes are probably universal and would benefit
from a global namespace...
<br>
<br>
In the meantime the local namespace of a single city's worth of data
will (this has been my experience editing campaigns wikia making me
wish "politics" was just a new kind of content in wikipedia) *probably*
reference many facts and concepts with broad relevance and
applicability. Do you want a wiki where 80% of the links are to other
wikis with broader scope? If it were technically feasible I'd argue in
favor of *only one* wiki with automatic translation progating edits
back and forth between language versions (or to a central artificial
language representation encoding all the info necessary for all the
different natural language versions of the text).
<br>
<br>
Perhaps this is simply a difference in values? Universal verus
particular? If you simply object to lots of people using and editing
the Hong Kong wiki because you want something local with a restricted
"bais" or "flavor" I'd be cool with that... I've been working for that
sort of thing within Campaigns Wikia as a promotion of "inherently
biased" articles that should not be edited by people without certain
affiliations. For an example: <a
href="http://campaigns.wikia.com/wiki/The_Politics_of_Slashdot">http://campaigns.wikia.com/wiki/The_Politics_of_Slashdot</a><br>
<br>
-Jennifer<br>
<br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/2/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">
YYK H</b> <<a href="mailto:y2keynes@gmail.com">y2keynes@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I
am not sure if i understand your points here. Geographic political
<br>
affiliation is _not_ incompatible with intelligent discussion.<br>
Geographic affiliation does not equal local only discussion.<br>
Recognizing regional differences in political issues does not reduce<br>
the amount of participation or discussing issue in intelligible way.
<br>
In fact, it will do exactly the opposite. Certainly there are "name<br>
space" like terrorism, global warming, etc. that applies globally and<br>
therefore should have global discussion. But one must recognize that
<br>
there are many issues that are directly associated with geography and<br>
it is not up to us to decides differently.<br>
<br>
For example, immigration policy is certainly different between US and<br>
Canada. Should there be only one name space for immigration policy?
<br>
If so, does that suggest there will be a single unified policy that is<br>
practical and adaptable for both country? I mean... US is neighbour<br>
with Mexico and we are neighbour with Arctic. If not, how will having<br>
a single name space produce more intelligent discussion?<br>
<br>
Kenny<br>
On 8/2/06, Jennifer M. <<a href="mailto:jenniferforunity@gmail.com">jenniferforunity@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> In daily editing on Campaigns Wikia I've repreatedly felt as
though I was
<br>
> limited by the fact that we weren't simply a "new kind of content"
within<br>
> wikipedia. I see the values of wikis growing as more and more
people with<br>
> diverse interests and knowledge fill in their own pieces of the
breadth of
<br>
> everything worth writing about... and breaking into specific wikis
prevents<br>
> that.<br>
><br>
> 100 wikis with 5 users each is, to my mind, 100 small wikis of
very little<br>
> value. Get the same 500 people editing content within a common
"name space"
<br>
> and something much more interesting and valuable occurs.<br>
><br>
> It's for reasons like this that I'd prefer to have the "sub wikis"
subsume<br>
> as much content as possible. Better to have everyone on the
planet who can
<br>
> read and write Traditional (or Simplified) Chinese using the
"Traditional<br>
> Chinese Political Wiki" (or the Simplified one). Breaking things
out<br>
> country by country, region by region, or city by city when the
countries,
<br>
> regions, or cities have a common written language will likely lead
to a<br>
> large number of ultimately less valuable wikis.<br>
><br>
> Personally, I don't know if readers and writers of Traditional or
Simplified
<br>
> written Chinese can read and write in each other's systems. I've
heard that<br>
> Traditional trained people can generally get the gist of
Simplified, but<br>
> that the reverse isn't always true. And I knew a woman from
Singapore that
<br>
> once explained to me some of the unusual innovations Singaporeans
made with<br>
> their nominally Traditional writing system...<br>
><br>
> What I'm trying to say is that, in principle, I much prefer the
idea of a
<br>
> few big wikis rather than many small wikis and deviations from this<br>
> principle seem to me as though they should be motivated by issues
of<br>
> intelligibility, rather than by issues of "political affiliation
with some
<br>
> geographic place".<br>
><br>
> -Jennifer<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 8/2/06, YYK H <<a href="mailto:y2keynes@gmail.com">y2keynes@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> > I am hoping the HK site will be in both Chinese and English
since
<br>
> > these are the official/legal language of the city and people
there<br>
> > have diverse background (not necessary Chinese), however, I
am not<br>
> > certain about the logistic of it yet (both language on one
page or
<br>
> > have the switching mechanism mentioned before).<br>
> ><br>
> > This localization is not so much a "breaking off" but more of
a<br>
> > sub-category to help discussion and representation of
issues. It is
<br>
> > my understanding that the global guiding principle of
Campaigns Wikia<br>
> > is having intelligent and thoughtful discussion of political
issues<br>
> > (beyond election) but not necessary a global one-size fits
all
<br>
> > consensuses of values (which is what I worry about if all
local<br>
> > politics are mix into one main site.) Just to be clear, I am
not<br>
> > trying to "fend off" foreign contribution to local
issues. In fact,
<br>
> > on issues such as political reform in HK that is suppose to
bring more<br>
> > democracy... experiences from citizens of democratic society
would be<br>
> > very beneficial. However, when these experiences are
presented, they
<br>
> > must be presented in a way that understand or at least
respect the<br>
> > differences in culture and context and I believe a clearly
distinctive<br>
> > localization would help in that respect.<br>
> ><br>
> > I think it's great that you have interest in politics in so
many<br>
> > places and I think this will actually help you find local
information<br>
> > much easier. However, in order to engage the people at a
personal
<br>
> > level, I do believe that most politics should have local
distinction<br>
> > because what's best for everyone in one place may not be
practical in<br>
> > another. For instance, political reform in Iran are more on
religion
<br>
> > vs secularism, which is a different type of reform than that
in HK.<br>
> > Similarly, there's also talk of political reform (Senate
reform) in<br>
> > Canada to make the system more responsive to the people and
that is
<br>
> > also entirely different form the two mentioned before. While
I am<br>
> > interested in politics in many places as well, I don't think
many<br>
> > people have the necessary time/energy to do so. And I think
it's up
<br>
> > to people like us to connect and raise the local discussion
to a<br>
> > higher (regional, international, global) level when it is
necessary.<br>
> > An general English page on the topic of "political reform"
won't help
<br>
> > the local to make better policy decisions.<br>
> ><br>
> > Kenny<br>
> ><br>
> > On 8/2/06, Chad Lupkes <<a
href="mailto:chadlupkes@gmail.com">chadlupkes@gmail.com</a> > wrote:<br>
> > >
<br>
> > > The details of the Chinese language diversity I didn't
know, so this is<br>
> good<br>
> > > information.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Would the Hong Kong site be in a different language than
Chinese, or are
<br>
> you<br>
> > > asking for a regional specific version? My
understanding is that we're<br>
> > > trying not to create regional sites, only language
based. Hong Kong<br>
> > > elections are welcome in English on the main site, and
if we need a
<br>
> Chinese<br>
> > > language Campaigns site then let's get one started. But
I'd rather not<br>
> see<br>
> > > regions break off from the main site. This needs to be
a global<br>
> movement,<br>
> > > and I'm almost as interested in Hong Kong elections as I
am in Seattle<br>
> > > races, which is where I live. We're all in this
together.<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > Chad
<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On 8/2/06, YYK H <<a href="mailto:y2keynes@gmail.com">y2keynes@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> > > > I believe wikipedia default the Chinese version to
which ever one was
<br>
> > > > used on first edit and then give option to convert
to all simplified<br>
> > > > or all traditional. At the beginning I thought
they are all default<br>
> > > > to simplified (just because there are a lot of
simplified pages and
<br>
> > > > Chinese wikipedia main page is defaulted to
simplified chinese) but I<br>
> > > > did find a few articles that are default to
traditional.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > I think those tabs are useful if a localized
campaigns have multiple
<br>
> > > > official languages, however, those tabs may get
pretty messy if the<br>
> > > > page are on concepts that are more "global"... say
if the mission<br>
> > > > statement is translated into 50 languages then you
may have problem
<br>
> > > > with too many tabs.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Who can add tabs there anyway? admin? which
reminds me... I have<br>
> > > > requested a new wikia for the the Hong
Kong-localized version
<br>
> > > > (<a href="http://hk.campaigns.wikia.com">hk.campaigns.wikia.com</a>)
of Campaigns Wikia a week ago. How long does<br>
> > > > this process take usually? Is the request queue
getting really long
<br>
> > > > because of Wikimania?<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Kenny<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > On 8/2/06, Angela <<a
href="mailto:beesley@gmail.com">beesley@gmail.com</a>
> wrote:<br>
> > > > > > It's a Chinese wikia for left wing
information, but what caught my<br>
> > > attention<br>
> > > > > > was the navigation links along the top.<br>
> > > > > >
<br>
> > > > > > zh<br>
> > > > > > cn<br>
> > > > > > tw<br>
> > > > > > sg<br>
> > > > > > hk<br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > > These are automatic links that perform an
automated translation into
<br>
> > > > > different versions of Chinese. All simplified
Chinese wikis have<br>
> these<br>
> > > > > options by default.<br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > > Angela.<br>
> > > > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > > > Campaigns-l mailing list<br>
> > > > > <a href="mailto:Campaigns-l@wikia.com">Campaigns-l@wikia.com</a><br>
> > > > > <a
href="http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l">http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l</a><br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > _______________________________________________
<br>
> > > > Campaigns-l mailing list<br>
> > > > <a href="mailto:Campaigns-l@wikia.com">Campaigns-l@wikia.com</a><br>
> > > > <a
href="http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l">
http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l</a><br>
> > > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > Campaigns-l mailing list
<br>
> > > <a href="mailto:Campaigns-l@wikia.com">Campaigns-l@wikia.com</a><br>
> > > <a
href="http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l">http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l</a><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Campaigns-l mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Campaigns-l@wikia.com">Campaigns-l@wikia.com
</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l">http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l</a><br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Campaigns-l mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Campaigns-l@wikia.com">Campaigns-l@wikia.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l">http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l
</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Campaigns-l mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Campaigns-l@wikia.com">Campaigns-l@wikia.com</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l">http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
Campaigns-l mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Campaigns-l@wikia.com">Campaigns-l@wikia.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l">http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>