<div>Luis</div> <div> </div> <div>Then perhaps you should have the same attitude toward Chad who wrote for all to see:</div> <div> </div> <div>"I'll tell you why. Because the Catholic Church teaches that we will<BR>pay for our sins in some future eternity, and that any suffering that<BR>we have to endure in this life is insignificant. The same mentality<BR>teaches radical Muslims that their reward in a future life will be<BR>beyond their imagination if they create suffering for their enemies in<BR>this life.<BR><BR>It's a lie. It's a tool used to encourage the domination of the many<BR>under the hand of the few. It's a justification used to force people<BR>to tolerate the intolerable, to allow the inexcusable and to<BR>accomplish the unthinkable."</div> <div> </div> <div>I joined this list for the reasons you write of. I didn't join to have my religion denigrated by having someone call it a 'lie'. A tool used to
encourage domination. That's extremely offensive and it may be part of the reason why people choose to leave the list.</div> <div> </div> <div>Can you recognize that?</div> <div> </div> <div>As far a abortion, I'm a middle of the roader, so to speak. But I would never denigrate another's religion for its basic principles about the worthiness of human life.</div> <div> </div> <div>Why not call on Chad to apologize for saying certain religions are a lie?<BR><BR><BR><B><I>Luis Villa <luis@tieguy.org></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">On 10/19/06, Luis Villa <LUIS@TIEGUY.ORG>wrote:<BR>> <SIGH><BR>><BR>> (1) This is a private list; you have no free speech rights on it. Your<BR>> emails are no different than if I walked into your church with a very<BR>> loud boombox during your sermon and started blaring, say, white noise,<BR>> or
something equally distracting and non-offensive. Would you respect<BR>> my 'right to free speech' then? No. You'd have me and my boombox<BR>> escorted from the building so you could continue your sermon. And<BR>> you'd have every right to.<BR>><BR>> (2) You and your flock would consider it *rude* that I interrupted<BR>> your sermon with something completely offtopic and unrelated, I<BR>> assume. My mother taught me that it was *rude* to interrupt others who<BR>> were discussing something unrelated without their permission. I assume<BR>> your mother did the same. So please accept my contention that your<BR>> interruption is rude and unwelcome, and honor our mothers by taking<BR>> the discussion elsewhere.<BR>><BR>> (3) Your emails do not further the goals of this list. The purpose of<BR>> this list is *not* political; it is *not* to advance specific<BR>> political, religious, or moral goals. The purpose is to discuss the<BR>>
use of a wiki to further the publication of useful information so that<BR>> voters can help decide how to vote. Your discussion is perfectly valid<BR>> to have about specific candidates on the wiki, and in the abstract<BR>> ('how can our wiki cope with people who have specific, unarguable<BR>> religious views') a discussion about your positions might be<BR>> interesting. But the specifics- 'I have these religious views, I'm<BR>> going to try to persuade you of them' are not of interest to most of<BR>> the people on this list, nor do they further our goals here.<BR>><BR>> So I ask you, politely, to stop posting these types of emails here.<BR>> Chad has already graciously offered you another forum (his blog) to<BR>> continue your discussion with him; you could continue it there, or if<BR>> you have specific candidates whose positions on abortion you disagree<BR>> with, you could discuss it in their pages in the wiki. But please<BR>>
don't put it on this list, where we're trying to do something<BR>> constructive and positive which would be derailed by having to repeat<BR>> a discussion which thirty years of discussion has not resolved, and<BR>> which will not be resolved or even significantly influenced here.<BR><BR>And if you need any proof of this, you'll note that people are<BR>beginning to unsubscribe from the list, people who (presumably) were<BR>interested in helping us move the campaign wiki forward at one time.<BR>Congrats on driving people off from our shared, cross-party,<BR>cross-political divide, cross-national goals.<BR><BR>Luis<BR><BR>> On 10/19/06, CH Rob J King <KURIOSIESUSCHRISTOS@ABIDINGLIFEPHOENIX.COM>wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Why do you think that an entire generation of Evangelical youth and young<BR>> > adults wear stickers over their mouth that read "Silence" and then stand in<BR>> > front of the U.S. Capitol Building. There are those
Americans who value<BR>> > free speech, and those who seek to limit or deny it when challenged. Now I<BR>> > know that freedom of speech no longer exists in America . . . The original<BR>> > thread spoke of seeking common ground, and this is what I am seeking, one<BR>> > such common ground being the U.S. Constitution, something that "spam<BR>> > blockers" seek to oppose . . .<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > CH Rob J. King, M.Div., Th.M., Ph.D. (ABD*)<BR>> > Chaplain, 345th, AR-MEDCOM<BR>> > Professor of Bible and Christian Ministry Grand Canyon University-Online<BR>> > Abiding Life Christian Ministries--Phoenix<BR>> > http://abidinglifephoenix.com/default.aspx<BR>> > kuriosiesuschristos@abidinglifephoenix.com<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ________________________________<BR>> > From: "Luis Villa" <LUIS@TIEGUY.ORG><BR>> > Reply-To:
campaigns-l@wikia.com<BR>> > To: campaigns-l@wikia.com<BR>> > Subject: [Campaigns-l] political discussion list policy?<BR>> > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:07:53 -0400<BR>> ><BR>> > >I have no idea if this list has moderators who can block users, but<BR>> > >can we make it a list policy that users who argue politics on this<BR>> > >list (as opposed to argue how to represent politics in the campaigns<BR>> > >wiki) be asked to take it elsewhere, and if they ignore that request<BR>> > >repeatedly, they be moderated in the future?<BR>> > ><BR>> > >Thanks-<BR>> > >Luis (dealing with enough off-topic spam as it is already)<BR>> > >_______________________________________________<BR>> > >Campaigns-l mailing list<BR>> > >Campaigns-l@wikia.com<BR>> > >http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l<BR>> ><BR>> >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > Campaigns-l mailing list<BR>> > Campaigns-l@wikia.com<BR>> > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Campaigns-l mailing list<BR>Campaigns-l@wikia.com<BR>http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/campaigns-l<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p> 
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