[Search-l] Search-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 1

Mon Jul 2 23:06:23 UTC 2007

Competitive?!? Really? 

I thought this was an open source project that everyone could be involved in. As I told jimmy at foo camp Mahalo.com hopes to a) use Wikia's open source search software and b) wants to help build it. 

We *share* the mission to open up search. I find it odd you see us competitive at all. We're both outsiders with zero marketshare at this point after all. 

Also, didn't Jimmy say he wanted to have all the up and coming search engines involved in the project. It isn't a zero sum game in your mind is it? If you want exclude Mahalo.com from the project... Well, I will respect your wishes I guess, but it feels odd after jimmy was so open about us being involved.

Also, how can I be half the posts when seth is 80% of them?!? :-)

All the best, Jason

---------------
Jason at Calacanis.com | 310-456-4900
www.calacanis.com

-----Original Message-----
From: gil penchina <gil at wikia.com>

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:06:09 
To:search-l at wikia.com
Subject: Re: [Search-l] Search-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 1

Jason,

I'm wondering if there's a way to limit you to posting less than HALF
the total emails on this DL.... or is that just your overly competitive
nature that forces you to be the most vocal person here?

:-)

Gil

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: "directory" vs. "search engine" (Aerik Sylvan)
>    2. Re: "directory" vs. "search engine" (Seth Finkelstein)
>    3. Mahalo Greenhouse (Jason Calacanis)
>    4. Re: Mahalo Greenhouse (Aerik Sylvan)
>    5. Re: Mahalo Greenhouse (Allen Stern)
>    6. Re: Mahalo Greenhouse (Jason Calacanis)
>    7. Re: Mahalo Greenhouse (Aerik Sylvan)
>    8. Re: Mahalo Greenhouse (Jason Calacanis)
>    9. Re: Mahalo Greenhouse (Jason Calacanis)
>   10. Wiki Culture? (Aerik Sylvan)
>   11. Re: Wiki Culture? ( Jason McCabe Calacanis )
>   12. /Talkshow: Jeremie Miller interview on June 28 at	10:30am PT
>       (Seth Finkelstein)
>   13. NYT: The Human Touch That May Loosen Google's Grip
>       (Seth Finkelstein)
>   14. Mahalo (Michael Wechner)
>   15. Re: Mahalo (Ashkan Karbasfrooshan)
>   16. Re: Mahalo ( Jason McCabe Calacanis )
>   17. Re: Mahalo (Michael Wechner)
>   18. Mahalo Greenhouse (Jason Calacanis)
>   19. Hi to all! (Liberic Development)
>   20. Oreilly OSCON next month! (jer)
>   21. open source search - on the desktop (jer)
>   22. Re: /Talkshow: Jeremie Miller interview on June 28 at	10:30am
>       PT (jer)
>   23. Wales - "Wikia as a search portal" (Seth Finkelstein)
>   24. Re: Wales - "Wikia as a search portal" (Jimmy Wales)
>   25. Re: Wales - "Wikia as a search portal" (Peter Saint-Andre)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:28:49 -0700
> From: "Aerik Sylvan" <aerik at thesylvans.com>
> Subject: Re: [Search-l] "directory" vs. "search engine"
> To: "Jason Calacanis" <jason at calacanis.com>, search-l at wikia.com
> Message-ID:
> 	<355a36af0706131228l5987c3c9o55676c8c8304dd6e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On 6/13/07, Jason Calacanis <jason at calacanis.com> wrote:
>> On 6/11/07, Nitin Borwankar <nitin at borwankar.com> wrote:
>>> There are different kinds of bloggers.
>>> Those who
>>> b) have "fun" blogging AND are self employed due to ad-revenue (and
>>> possibly premium subscription revenue) from blogging
>> Nitin: You nailed it. We paid 300 bloggers a month when I was running
>> Weblogs, Inc. (which produces Engadget, Joystiq, Autoblog, etc). So,
>> there is a model between work for free for fun, and get paid and hate
>> your job. Frankly, I find it crazy that folks would work for free for
>> a venture-backed company when sales people, CEOs, programmers and
>> others are getting paid--but that's just me.
>
>
>
> Hmm... I'd like to look at this whole question from some new angles.  First,
> is this topic of "working for free".  I think we can safely say that no one
> wants to "work for free".  Pretty much by definition, we work for money, or
> some other compensation (fame, glory, to alleviate feelings of guilt,
> whatever).  And certainly there are folks who work for some of those other
> forms of compensation - to be brutally honest, I hope to achieve something
> with many my contributions.  Creating the Wiki Directory (
> http://wikidweb.com) was fun and interesting, but I hopeed to eventually get
> something - not necessarily money, but something - out of it.  So not all
> work is for money or immediate compensation.
>
> BUT, there is also the category of contributions that are either altruistic,
> or just fun.  Probably many wikipedia editors fall in this category.  They
> are not being fleeced.  They are not hoping to get rich or famous (perhaps a
> few are, but many are not).  They're having fun, or they're doing it out of
> altruism.
>
> That leads nicely to another topic, which is the question of culture.  Jason
> rather famously said that Wikipedia should have advertisements (
> http://www.calacanis.com/2006/10/28/wikipedia-leaves-100m-on-the-table-or-please-jimbo-reconsider/
> ).
> I think the culture of Wikipeida is probably kind of like public television
> or radio - it's not a perfect analogy, because NPR pays (most) of it's
> contributors, but many folks who call in or participate on shows are not
> paid - so it's not too much of a stretch.  Okay, so contrast public radio
> and television to the for-profit broadcast channels (who are monetized by
> advertising).
>
> The content and culture of the two are totally different.  And I'm inclined
> to theorize that there's a dynamic there that drives that.  A large
> non-profit supported by advertisements would be an interesting experiment,
> but it's easy to think that the content decisions might be colored by a
> desire to increase revenue.  If you're pinching pennies and begging for
> donations to make ends meet, the environment is one where it's easier to
> stay focussed on
> the goal of the endeavor, and have no temptations to tweak the content to
> increase revenues.
>
> Now, the reason I bring it up is (well, it's intesting to think about on
> it's own) that there is more to be considered than just business models.
> Or, maybe more accurately in the case of Wikia, there's more to the business
> model than just the revenue model.  Wikipedia has a culture that drives it.
> Mahalo will have a very different culture.  What kind of culture will Wikia
> Search have?
>
> (As a total side note, I can tell you that I am trying to foster a culture
> more like Wikipedia at my wiki directory - thus, no quick sources of revenue
> (Google Ads)... I'd guess that what I'm attempting to do is a funky hybrid
> business model since I don't think donations could support it, at scale).
>
> Best Regards,
> Aerik
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:03:11 -0400
> From: Seth Finkelstein <sethf at sethf.com>
> Subject: Re: [Search-l] "directory" vs. "search engine"
> To: search-l at wikia.com
> Message-ID: <20070613200311.GA740 at sethf.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 02:31:53AM -0700, Jason Calacanis wrote:
>> On 6/11/07, Nitin Borwankar <nitin at borwankar.com> wrote:
>>> There are different kinds of bloggers.
>>> Those who
>>> b) have "fun" blogging AND are self employed due to ad-revenue (and
>>> possibly premium subscription revenue) from blogging
>> Nitin: You nailed it. We paid 300 bloggers a month when I was running
>> Weblogs, Inc. (which produces Engadget, Joystiq, Autoblog, etc). So,
>> there is a model between work for free for fun, and get paid and hate
>> your job.
>
> 	Hmm ...
>
> http://www.blogherald.com/2005/08/29/time-for-a-long-cold-shower-on-blogging-pay-rates/
> http://www.blogherald.com/2005/08/26/weblogs-inc-pay-rates-revealed-by-disgruntled-potential-recruit/
> http://www.metafilter.com/44548/Weblogs-Inc-Contract#1021977
>
> 	Now, now, Jason - you're a businessman. I'm sure you don't
> pay more than the market will bear. Which is better than zero, of
> course, where relevant. But still, a job's a job.
>
>> Frankly, I find it crazy that folks would work for free for a
>> venture-backed company when sales people, CEOs, programmers and
>> others are getting paid--but that's just me.
>
> 	People sell flowers at airports for the greater glory of
> their guru. Real-world economics is a complicated topic :-).
>
>> ...today I'm thrilled to announce that you can create search results
>> at Mahalo.com and get paid for doing them! More details here:
>>
>> http://greenhouse.mahalo.com/
>
> 	Piecework! Yet another old business model brought to digital
> sharecropping :-).
>
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