[Search-l] hipmojo.com - "Jimmy Wales vs. Jason Calacanis"

Wed Jul 4 19:43:31 UTC 2007

On 7/4/07, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> On Jul 3, 2007, at 2:14 PM, Seth Finkelstein wrote:
> The difference between Mahalo and Wikia is pretty clear, isn't it?
> Mahalo is proprietary.  Wikia is free.  Or at least, I haven't heard
> Jason say that he's going to release either the software or data
> under a free license.  And so, for me, his project is just not that
> interesting.  I mean, I am sure it is lovely and all, but I really
> don't care about it.

Mahalo for the feedback Jimmy--you are about 1/3rd correct.

1. On software
------------------------
All the changes to MediaWiki, the software we are using, are being
contributed back. We've made a great threaded message board that I
think would be a great tool for Wikipedia to transition their
discussion pages to and I hope they consider it.

In fact, you know this Jimmy because at Foo Camp I told you about our
Message Board while we drank scotch and offered it to you to use at
Wikia--I guess you forgot (maybe the scotch?). :-)

In terms of search software we use Nutch right now and might use
Wikia's software down the road. Again, all software is free and we are
contributing all changes back. We are also using Squid and
contributing back changes.

On the software front we are exactly the same as Wikia.

2. Editorial
------------------------
In terms of the hand-written search results we are paying people to
create them in the Greenhouse (http://greenhouse.mahalo.com) and on
our staff. We are retaining ownership of the editorial we pay for so
we can continue to pay for it. That is where Jimmy and I diverge it
seems: we feel since we're paying for the results we should own them;
Jimmy isn't paying editors so doesn't have the same worry.

Now, this is not written in stone. In the future we might move to a
Creative Commons model for the results--perhaps non-commercial so
someone doesn't just life the entire Mahalo index and dilute our
ability to pay the contributors. That's my main concern: figuring out
a way to keep paying folks who want to get paid for their
contributions.

So, I like CC Noncommerical and I like paying people.

My previous company Weblogs, Inc. paid people to create amazing blogs
like HackADay, Engadget, Autoblog, Joysitq, etc. These folks were able
to make careers out working from home--many were stay at home parents
with five hours to work while their kids were at school. I'm very
proud of the fact that we were able to pay them. In fact, I see being
able to create sustainable ways to pay folks for working on
distributed editorial projects as a great success--that is what I hope
to do with Mahalo.

If folks do not want to be paid--if that kills the excitement for
them--we are letting them donate the fees to Wikipedia or Mozilla (we
might add more projects in the future). I think this is the best model
going forward balancing Yochi's dreams while letting people keep a
roof over their head and take care of their kids.

My feeling on the subject of people getting paid for work is that
venture-backed companies should pay people for their work *if* those
people want to be paid. If you're spending five hours a day editing
Mahalo I feel it's only right to give you something other than a pat
on the back or the rush of building a search engine/directory. If
you're spending five minutes a month suggesting links? Maybe not.
There really are many classes of people in these systems and you can
create various compensation systems for them from monetary to
altruistic.

Again, I take nothing away from folks who do it for the fun... I'm one
of them! My edits to the wikipedia are free. My podcast and blog
sponsorships go to a charity that puts foster kids into private
schools with small class sizes.

Honestly, as a writer by trade, I always find it odd that the creative
people are the ones left behind when VC-backed companies start a
project. The management team, core developers, administrators always
seem to get paid... the "content creators" (to use a horrible term)
always seem to get left behind. I hope we can turn that model on it's
head and help the creative/editors/artists make a living. This is just
my vision... other people can--and have--created large systems that
thrive without paying creative types.

> I do wish he would stop spamming this list with
> irrelevancies, but of course he is welcome to contribute and welcome
> to use our work if it suits him.

At this point Gil and Jimmy feel I am spamming the list, but are
telling me off list they want me involved in the project. Talk about
mixed messages!!!

My emails to the list have only been in response to people talking
about Mahalo. If folks want to discuss Mahalo and Wikia I'm willing to
discuss it--I'm not sure why Jimmy and Gil want to censor this
discussion or consider it irrelevant--the people posting messages
about Mahalo don't seem to think they are irrelevant Jimmy.

Also, Jimmy I'm kind of hurt (really--just crushed :-) that you're
resorting to using aggressive language like "spamming" when all I've
ever done is offer to support the Wikia search project. I even offered
to share costs for the servers at Foo Camp. You said you wanted to
form a group of up and coming search companies who could leverage open
software--that's what we want too. What happened to "assume good
faith?" thing?

Other folks are asking me to be involved on the list (and project),
Gil is asking me to be involved off list, so... it feels like I'm
damed if I do and dammed if I don't to a certain extent. I mean, I
have to respond to this email because it's got wrong assumptions, but
is Jimmy going to continue saying I'm a spammer because I'm correcting
the errors in his assumptions? Ugh.

I'm going to keep my position of only replying to direct questions and
Mahalo misinformation/clarifications (like this one) going forward. If
you want me to respond to anything else my email and phone number
below and I'm more then willing to talk to anyone at any time.... but
for now I'm gonna jump in the pool!!!!

Happy 4th everyone...

best j
---------------------
Jason McCabe Calacanis
CEO, http://www.Mahalo.com
Mobile: 310-456-4900
My blog: http://www.calacanis.com
AOL IM/Skype: jasoncalacanis