[Search-l] Browser Test

[Tom Wright]

The idea behind using javascript is to have a client-side component to
the search "program". At the moment the server is only responsible for
providing search results and wiki pages in a computer readable format,
whilst the webpage itself downloads these and places them in the
document.

The use of javascript is fundamental to the current approach - it is
not just being used for presentation or dynamic effects.

---
The separation of providing search results and providing a search
engine has the following advantages:

(i)    Allows third parties to make use of the search results.
(ii)   Makes it easier to use the search results programmatically -
(this could be very useful)
(iii)  Allows the search engine to use several different sets of
search results. (e.g different set for different types of search, sets
of results that are specific to user, collating of search results.).
This might be useful from the point of view of openness and
flexibility.
(iv)  Allows search results to be hosted in a separate location from
the search engine.

I think it's definitely the case that this is a good thing - and is
quite important to much of search wikias vision. The problems that
this might cause are related to efficiency rather than anything else.
----

Given this separation the insistence on using javascript makes
slightly more sense - since if javascript wasn't used it would be
necessary for server-side scripting to download these results, and
then resend them to the user. This would

(i) Increases the serverside strain.
(ii) Increases the server side bandwidth use, assuming that the search
results are stored at a separate location. This might make it
impossible to use multiple sets of indexing.

It might be the case that (ii) would render this approach impossible,
but I don't really know.

(i) Also may have the result of limiting the possibilities for what
the search engine can do - since some computationally expensive things
will be impossibly difficult if centralized.

Nevertheless it might be possible to provide a completely severside solution.

Tom











On Feb 12, 2008 12:30 PM, Markus Petz <markus.petz at chello.at> wrote:
>
> >While I do agree that ideally the search should work without javascript,
> >I would have to say that given that for 99.9% of all people who attempt
> >it, it works fine, this seems of low priority to me to fix.  I don't
> >think it is "dumping the whole idea".
> >
> >Having said that, I would be very supportive of changing it so that it
> >degrades more gracefully.  (i.e. for people without javascript, it could
> >simply lose some functionality instead of not working at all).
>
> JS is ok if there is someone who writes it for all existing browsers and
> checks it on any new version of any browser. Why do you go for 99.9% with
> lots of hassle when you can have 100% without special care? Currently i
> simply can't use it since it DOESN'T WORK on my browser. Simple HTML would
> have worked. See what i mean?
> Additional info: tried with MSIE 5 on my desktop machine here, doesn't work
> either.
>
>
> >totally agree, the .js stuff makes wikia different (which is nice) and
> >also really coll.  but i do totally agree that it needs to degrade nicely
> >(more nicer?? :-p)
>
> Sorry, but if a search engine (or any website) has to be "cool" and "nice"
> then i strongly suspect it has mayor flaws hidden behind the fancy skin. A
> search engine is a tool to find me webpages, no more.
>
>  >I do agree with removing unnecessary stuff, but for now, the Javascript
> >is pretty necessary as I understand the situation.
>
> ...then i don't understand the situation. Seems to me like one of these
> situations where technicians tell me "it has to be like it is and it's
> going to stay, you will adapt!". Where i clearly see that it is flawed like
> it is and i know that it can easily be fixed by simplyfication but i have
> no power whatsoever to change the misery.
> So what does the JS do which makes the site differ from other search
> engines and is therefore absolutely necessary (and that page should have
> only the absolute necessary on it)?
>
>
>
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