From phil.nelson at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 00:19:47 2008 From: phil.nelson at gmail.com (Christian Nelson) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:19:47 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] UI Guidelines for Apps Message-ID: <061229B4-614D-4599-AEBA-E41397E06012@zerolives.org> We need to set forth some kind of ui guidelines for apps, otherwise this will get out of hand very quickly. Things like: A uniform icon size, colors that should and shouldn't be used for links, how many items to show in a list, etc. - Phil From rainer.blome at gmx.de Mon Dec 1 08:19:25 2008 From: rainer.blome at gmx.de (Rainer Blome) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 09:19:25 +0100 Subject: [search-ui] UI Guidelines for Apps In-Reply-To: <061229B4-614D-4599-AEBA-E41397E06012@zerolives.org> References: <061229B4-614D-4599-AEBA-E41397E06012@zerolives.org> Message-ID: <49339E0D.6020801@gmx.de> Christian Nelson wrote: > We need to set forth some kind of ui guidelines for apps, > ... uniform icon size, colors ... for links, how many > items to show in a list, etc. True. Can these simply be enforced by the framework? An app should provide only content, no style. Rainer From phil.nelson at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 17:03:22 2008 From: phil.nelson at gmail.com (Christian Nelson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:03:22 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] error on search.wikia Message-ID: <2DAAB58D-2D6B-45B0-A3F4-48A675BD77AD@zerolives.org> http://search.wikia.com/ leads to a 503. It should at least redirect to re.search. - Phil From david.pean at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 17:40:54 2008 From: david.pean at gmail.com (David Pean) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:40:54 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] error on search.wikia In-Reply-To: <2DAAB58D-2D6B-45B0-A3F4-48A675BD77AD@zerolives.org> References: <2DAAB58D-2D6B-45B0-A3F4-48A675BD77AD@zerolives.org> Message-ID: Ops is looking into it Dave On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Christian Nelson wrote: > http://search.wikia.com/ leads to a 503. It should at least redirect > to re.search. > > - Phil > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/search-ui/attachments/20081202/cda45ffe/attachment.html From newsmarkie at googlemail.com Wed Dec 3 18:11:21 2008 From: newsmarkie at googlemail.com (Mark (Markie)) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 18:11:21 +0000 Subject: [search-ui] error on search.wikia In-Reply-To: References: <2DAAB58D-2D6B-45B0-A3F4-48A675BD77AD@zerolives.org> Message-ID: guys im hoping you already know about this ( http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/12/03/wikia-search-is-having-severe-website-problems/) and if you dont im worried, but whats the problem with just shifting it back to panther for a while whilst you sort it out. mark On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:40 PM, David Pean wrote: > Ops is looking into it > Dave > > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Christian Nelson wrote: > >> http://search.wikia.com/ leads to a 503. It should at least redirect >> to re.search. >> >> - Phil >> _______________________________________________ >> Search-UI mailing list >> Search-UI at wikia.com >> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/search-ui/attachments/20081203/765cc152/attachment.html From david.pean at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 18:44:15 2008 From: david.pean at gmail.com (David Pean) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:44:15 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] error on search.wikia In-Reply-To: References: <2DAAB58D-2D6B-45B0-A3F4-48A675BD77AD@zerolives.org> Message-ID: I let the wikia ops guys know about it yesterday when it came up, so I'll have to check with them On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Mark (Markie) wrote: > guys im hoping you already know about this ( > http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/12/03/wikia-search-is-having-severe-website-problems/) > and if you dont im worried, but whats the problem with just shifting it back > to panther for a while whilst you sort it out. > > mark > > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:40 PM, David Pean wrote: > >> Ops is looking into it >> Dave >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Christian Nelson wrote: >> >>> http://search.wikia.com/ leads to a 503. It should at least redirect >>> to re.search. >>> >>> - Phil >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Search-UI mailing list >>> Search-UI at wikia.com >>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Search-UI mailing list >> Search-UI at wikia.com >> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/search-ui/attachments/20081203/bc0dca8e/attachment.html From jeremie at jabber.org Wed Dec 3 19:12:41 2008 From: jeremie at jabber.org (Jeremie Miller) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:12:41 -0600 Subject: [search-ui] error on search.wikia In-Reply-To: References: <2DAAB58D-2D6B-45B0-A3F4-48A675BD77AD@zerolives.org> Message-ID: Yeah, alarms have been raised, just waiting for the fix to land :) In the meantime, re.search.wikia.com works fine, it's just the search.wikia.com hostname, not the actual search engine itself... On Dec 3, 2008, at 12:44 PM, David Pean wrote: > I let the wikia ops guys know about it yesterday when it came up, so > I'll have to check with them > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Mark (Markie) > wrote: > guys im hoping you already know about this (http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/12/03/wikia-search-is-having-severe-website-problems/ > ) and if you dont im worried, but whats the problem with just > shifting it back to panther for a while whilst you sort it out. > > mark > > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:40 PM, David Pean > wrote: > Ops is looking into it > > Dave > > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Christian Nelson > wrote: > http://search.wikia.com/ leads to a 503. It should at least redirect > to re.search. > > - Phil > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui > > > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui > > > > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui From phil.nelson at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 19:45:49 2008 From: phil.nelson at gmail.com (Christian Nelson) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:45:49 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] UI Discussion Elsewhere Message-ID: <32535871-280F-4666-8085-6542C1EE7F78@zerolives.org> There's still http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:UI_Roadmap, is there anywhere else to talk about these issues? Threaded discussion is seriously necessary for some of this stuff, as well as being able to attach image mock-ups and so forth. - Phil From phil.nelson at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 19:49:22 2008 From: phil.nelson at gmail.com (Christian Nelson) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:49:22 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] When will we get Applications in the search UI SVN? Message-ID: <3E6A19AD-F77A-4EF3-9A22-9C9B297BA5F5@zerolives.org> What's the deal with this? - Phil From rainer.blome at gmx.de Wed Dec 3 20:32:42 2008 From: rainer.blome at gmx.de (Rainer Blome) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:32:42 +0100 Subject: [search-ui] When will we get Applications in the search UI SVN? In-Reply-To: <3E6A19AD-F77A-4EF3-9A22-9C9B297BA5F5@zerolives.org> References: <3E6A19AD-F77A-4EF3-9A22-9C9B297BA5F5@zerolives.org> Message-ID: <4936ECEA.5090208@gmx.de> Christian Nelson wrote: > What's the deal with this? Could you be a little more specific? Applications are currently managed in the WISE repository, http://svn.swlabs.org/WISE , does this help? Rainer From jeremie at jabber.org Wed Dec 3 20:35:54 2008 From: jeremie at jabber.org (Jeremie Miller) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:35:54 -0600 Subject: [search-ui] UI Discussion Elsewhere In-Reply-To: <32535871-280F-4666-8085-6542C1EE7F78@zerolives.org> References: <32535871-280F-4666-8085-6542C1EE7F78@zerolives.org> Message-ID: We have https://bugs.launchpad.net/wikia-search in heavy use, is there other tools there that would be better? On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:45 PM, Christian Nelson wrote: > There's still http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:UI_Roadmap, is there > anywhere else to talk about these issues? Threaded discussion is > seriously necessary for some of this stuff, as well as being able to > attach image mock-ups and so forth. > > - Phil > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui > From rainer.blome at gmx.de Wed Dec 3 20:45:00 2008 From: rainer.blome at gmx.de (Rainer Blome) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:45:00 +0100 Subject: [search-ui] UI Discussion Elsewhere In-Reply-To: <32535871-280F-4666-8085-6542C1EE7F78@zerolives.org> References: <32535871-280F-4666-8085-6542C1EE7F78@zerolives.org> Message-ID: <4936EFCC.7010508@gmx.de> Christian Nelson wrote: > There's still http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:UI_Roadmap, is there > anywhere else to talk about these issues? Like here? The wiki... o makes it easier to incrementally produce results, o caters to a more focused group of participants, those who put that page on their watch list and regularly check it, and o makes it easier to use images. The list... o is read and used by staff developers, o has a wider audience, o is more "invasive" (changes get pushed to you) > Threaded discussion is seriously necessary for some of this stuff, For which stuff exactly? Go right ahead :-) Both the list and the wiki can be used in a threaded fashion. > as well as being able to attach image mock-ups and so forth. Easy in the wiki (at least I think so). Link from list to wiki when you need to. Rainer From phil.nelson at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 01:00:23 2008 From: phil.nelson at gmail.com (Christian Nelson) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 20:00:23 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] contributions graphs Message-ID: <66FF31C9-E3A7-42A4-8C69-245EF3894259@zerolives.org> The numbers on here can't be right http://re.search.wikia.com/metrics/actiontrend.html , unless wikia (or someone else) is running scripts that automate certain changes each day, the odds of there being exactly 3,728 contributions this many days in a row are just crazy. - Phil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/search-ui/attachments/20081203/ff930438/attachment-0001.html From jeremie at jabber.org Thu Dec 4 05:03:51 2008 From: jeremie at jabber.org (Jeremie Miller) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 23:03:51 -0600 Subject: [search-ui] contributions graphs In-Reply-To: <66FF31C9-E3A7-42A4-8C69-245EF3894259@zerolives.org> References: <66FF31C9-E3A7-42A4-8C69-245EF3894259@zerolives.org> Message-ID: It's broke in a funky way, we were trying to figure it out today, should get fixed real soon now :/ On Dec 3, 2008, at 7:00 PM, Christian Nelson wrote: > The numbers on here can't be right http://re.search.wikia.com/metrics/actiontrend.html > , unless wikia (or someone else) is running scripts that automate > certain changes each day, the odds of there being exactly 3,728 > contributions this many days in a row are just crazy. > > - Phil > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Sat Dec 20 09:36:34 2008 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Daemonax) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:36:34 +1300 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. Message-ID: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> Hi there, Is there a roapmap or something about plans for the search interface? I have suggestions for a number of improvements but before suggesting them I'd like to make sure they aren't already planned. The current interface is in dire need of changes. From aaron.wright at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 13:34:54 2008 From: aaron.wright at gmail.com (Aaron Wright) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:34:54 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: I don't think there is. What changes do you suggest? On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 4:36 AM, Daemonax wrote: > Hi there, > > Is there a roapmap or something about plans for the search interface? I > have suggestions for a number of improvements but before suggesting them > I'd like to make sure they aren't already planned. > > The current interface is in dire need of changes. > > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui > From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Sat Dec 20 13:55:35 2008 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Daemonax) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:55:35 +1300 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> Okay, well first off I think that the interface is simply too clutered. The spotlighting, the star rating, the submit links, and more. I think that something more simple would be better, something along the lines of the reddit vote up, vote down system for weighing up the relevance of search results. The "Add to this result" part that now appears on the right side, should not appear at all when searching. It should be something that is easily reached by one of the links at the bottom of the browser window... Again, too much cluter. Though this is of course a great, and important feature of search.wikia, so the odd remainder that "You can help improve search.wikia.com by submitting links" would be fine, this could perhaps be a little bubble that pops up for every 5 searches or something. Search pages, rather than the current infinite scrolling that happens, this would again make things feel more ordered and less clutered/messy. The 'select a background' feature, while is some cases it works, and is amusing, can be truly terrible. Just try a search for 'slashdot' it looks terrible, and where my username is in the upper right corner becomes very hard to read against that background. The front page is great, no problems. It's clean and simple... After submitting a search though, there are too many distractions on the screen. Hope that everything I've said makes sense. On Sat, 2008-12-20 at 08:34 -0500, Aaron Wright wrote: > I don't think there is. What changes do you suggest? > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 4:36 AM, Daemonax wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > Is there a roapmap or something about plans for the search interface? I > > have suggestions for a number of improvements but before suggesting them > > I'd like to make sure they aren't already planned. > > > > The current interface is in dire need of changes. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Search-UI mailing list > > Search-UI at wikia.com > > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui > > > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui From rainer.blome at gmx.de Sat Dec 20 15:55:19 2008 From: rainer.blome at gmx.de (Rainer Blome) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:55:19 +0100 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: <494D1567.6060500@gmx.de> Daemonax wrote: > Is there a roapmap or something about plans for the search interface? Yes, there is: http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:UI_Roadmap From jwales at wikia-inc.com Sat Dec 20 19:16:21 2008 From: jwales at wikia-inc.com (Jimmy Wales) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:16:21 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: <494D4485.2010502@wikia-inc.com> Daemonax: I agree with almost everything you have said, and even where I have a slight disagreement (based on personal preference), I see your point. Daemonax wrote: > Okay, well first off I think that the interface is simply too clutered. > The spotlighting, the star rating, the submit links, and more. I, too, think the spotlighting should go. It seems useless to me - if something should be spotlighted, it should really just be the first link. The star rating I like, it's an intuitive way to simply rank things. The "add to this result" I like. "Comment" is not very much used, and never to any good purpose that I have seen, and I think it should go. > The "Add to this result" part that now appears on the right side, should > not appear at all when searching. It should be something that is easily > reached by one of the links at the bottom of the browser window... > Again, too much cluter. Though this is of course a great, and important > feature of search.wikia, so the odd remainder that "You can help improve > search.wikia.com by submitting links" would be fine, this could perhaps > be a little bubble that pops up for every 5 searches or something. I'm not sure I agree with you on this one, but I get where you are coming from. What do others think? > Search pages, rather than the current infinite scrolling that happens, > this would again make things feel more ordered and less clutered/messy. I agree 100%. I liked the infinite scrolling for awhile, but now I feel that it's just "cute". What do others think? > The 'select a background' feature, while is some cases it works, and is > amusing, can be truly terrible. Just try a search for 'slashdot' it > looks terrible, and where my username is in the upper right corner > becomes very hard to read against that background. Again, I tend to agree. I've always thought that feature was cute but not very useful. On the other hand, it is sort of fun. (Your example, by the way, is a great one.) Again, what do others think? > Hope that everything I've said makes sense. Yes, and I agree with most of it! --Jimbo From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Sun Dec 21 00:20:57 2008 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Daemonax) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:20:57 +1300 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <494D4485.2010502@wikia-inc.com> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> <494D4485.2010502@wikia-inc.com> Message-ID: <1229818857.6044.13.camel@daemonax-laptop> > I, too, think the spotlighting should go. It seems useless to me - if > something should be spotlighted, it should really just be the first link. > > The star rating I like, it's an intuitive way to simply rank things. > The star thing is alright and is unobtrusive and intuitive. Spotlighting really should go, I've seen some terrible usage of it, spotlighting urls that are barely relevant, and I wasn't able to find a way to remove the spotlighting. > The "add to this result" I like. In it's current form at the very least, I don't like it. Perhaps if it was collapsed and you could click to expand it wouldn't be so bad. Another thing is 'Result History', when I'm seeing stuff like: "83.41.166.170 rated 5 stars" that's not very good. Seeing IP address' scattered around like that makes things look messy. Seems we agree on the other stuff, so that's good. From rainer.blome at gmx.de Sun Dec 21 02:34:11 2008 From: rainer.blome at gmx.de (Rainer Blome) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 03:34:11 +0100 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> Daemonax wrote: > Okay, well first off I think that the interface is simply too clutered. I agree. There is a "light" version already: http://search.wikia.com/exp/light.html#test There are too many "layers" above the results proper: "top line", "search box", "alternative terms", "additional terms", "apps", "green ads". Ideally, the user could choose the features that they want to use. A general preferences mechanism is planned, but some way off, I understand. Beyond the planned privacy and trust settings, UI features, and the content and UI languages should be selectable. > The spotlighting ...is not necessary, I agree. > the star rating, ...is good, in my opinion. It allows the users to directly give their "absolute" opinion. This potentially lets the result order converge faster. > the submit links, What "submit links" do you mean? > The "Add to this result" part that now appears on the right side, should > not appear at all when searching. It should be something that is easily > reached ... Yeah, easy to reach. :-) I love that it is right there, not requiring me to click or, heaven forbid, wait out a request-response cycle. > Search pages, rather than the current infinite scrolling that happens, > this would again make things feel more ordered and less clutered/messy. Most of the time I love the infinite scrolling, it is what I want. It would be nice if the results showed up earlier, though. Maybe the first three KT requests could be combined? > The 'select a background' feature, while is some cases it works, and is > amusing, can be truly terrible. Just try a search for 'slashdot' it > looks terrible, Anarchy at work here :-). If you don't like it, change it or erase (Shift-Click) it. > and where my username is in the upper right corner > becomes very hard to read against that background. Yes, there should be a background color for that text. Rainer From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Sun Dec 21 03:41:38 2008 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Daemonax) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:41:38 +1300 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> Message-ID: <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> > > What "submit links" do you mean? I meant the "Add to this result" section, sorry. > > > The "Add to this result" part that now appears on the right side, should > > not appear at all when searching. It should be something that is easily > > reached ... > Yeah, easy to reach. :-) I love that it is right there, not requiring me > to click or, heaven forbid, wait out a request-response cycle. > Yes, waiting for a request-response would be annoying, which is why is my second response I said that something like a "Click to expand" thing would be better. In order to keep stuff clean, extra features should be collapsed, or in different areas. > Most of the time I love the infinite scrolling, it is what I want. > It would be nice if the results showed up earlier, though. > Maybe the first three KT requests could be combined? > KT requests? Anyway, I'll just have to disagree with the infinite scrolling thing. I don't think it lends itself very well to having things nicely organized. > > The 'select a background' feature, while is some cases it works, and is > > amusing, can be truly terrible. Just try a search for 'slashdot' it > > looks terrible, > > Anarchy at work here :-). If you don't like it, change it or erase > (Shift-Click) it. > As someone who labels himself an anarchist, I wouldn't say that anarchy means any thing goes. Part of it is community discussion and coming to an agreement with everyone in that community. I think whether the background thing is needed should be discussed. It's something that I could see easily lending itself to abuse, and even when it makes a nice little addition, it's not an important feature anyway. Perhaps another solution would be a process of suggesting a background, and people voting yes/no to whether it should be added would make people happy, but this would take a bit of work I'd imagine. Another option would be the ability to disable custom backgrounds. From phil.nelson at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 03:56:37 2008 From: phil.nelson at gmail.com (Christian Nelson) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:56:37 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: While we appreciate discussion, Daemonax, lots of these things have been discussed already. The problem is simple: no one has coded or mocked them up. It's great to say "this should be cleaner", and it really should be, but some code or a visual example of what you think would be better would go light-years farther. - Phil On Dec 20, 2008, at 10:41 PM, Daemonax wrote: > >> >> What "submit links" do you mean? > > I meant the "Add to this result" section, sorry. > >> >>> The "Add to this result" part that now appears on the right side, >>> should >>> not appear at all when searching. It should be something that is >>> easily >>> reached ... > >> Yeah, easy to reach. :-) I love that it is right there, not >> requiring me >> to click or, heaven forbid, wait out a request-response cycle. >> > Yes, waiting for a request-response would be annoying, which is why is > my second response I said that something like a "Click to expand" > thing > would be better. In order to keep stuff clean, extra features should > be > collapsed, or in different areas. > > >> Most of the time I love the infinite scrolling, it is what I want. >> It would be nice if the results showed up earlier, though. >> Maybe the first three KT requests could be combined? >> > KT requests? Anyway, I'll just have to disagree with the infinite > scrolling thing. I don't think it lends itself very well to having > things nicely organized. > >>> The 'select a background' feature, while is some cases it works, >>> and is >>> amusing, can be truly terrible. Just try a search for 'slashdot' it >>> looks terrible, >> >> Anarchy at work here :-). If you don't like it, change it or erase >> (Shift-Click) it. >> > As someone who labels himself an anarchist, I wouldn't say that > anarchy > means any thing goes. Part of it is community discussion and coming to > an agreement with everyone in that community. > > I think whether the background thing is needed should be discussed. > It's > something that I could see easily lending itself to abuse, and even > when > it makes a nice little addition, it's not an important feature anyway. > > Perhaps another solution would be a process of suggesting a > background, > and people voting yes/no to whether it should be added would make > people > happy, but this would take a bit of work I'd imagine. > > Another option would be the ability to disable custom backgrounds. > > > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Sun Dec 21 04:08:51 2008 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Daemonax) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:08:51 +1300 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: <1229832531.6044.26.camel@daemonax-laptop> I'll see if I've got the energy to make a crude mock-up later tonight. On Sat, 2008-12-20 at 22:56 -0500, Christian Nelson wrote: > While we appreciate discussion, Daemonax, lots of these things have > been discussed already. The problem is simple: no one has coded or > mocked them up. It's great to say "this should be cleaner", and it > really should be, but some code or a visual example of what you think > would be better would go light-years farther. > > - Phil > From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Sun Dec 21 11:56:05 2008 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Daemonax) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:56:05 +1300 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <1229832531.6044.26.camel@daemonax-laptop> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229832531.6044.26.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: <1229860565.6044.35.camel@daemonax-laptop> Here's that mockup I said I'd try to get done. Very crude and only highlighting a few points. Sorry that it's rough, I'm not an artist and haven't used image manipulation tools before. http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3509/mockupqv6.png I think other points I've made such as search pages, aka google and every other search engine I know of, don't need to be illustrated. If people really want infinite scrolling it should be an option they can turn on, but not something set by default. From jwales at wikia-inc.com Sun Dec 21 13:14:44 2008 From: jwales at wikia-inc.com (Jimmy Wales) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:14:44 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: <494E4144.4070008@wikia-inc.com> Daemonax wrote: > Yes, waiting for a request-response would be annoying, which is why is > my second response I said that something like a "Click to expand" thing > would be better. In order to keep stuff clean, extra features should be > collapsed, or in different areas. I like this idea. The words "Add to this result" should be "Add a url", too, I think. So "Add a url" would be a linktext. And when you click it, the stuff that is there now automagically appears (with no request-response, it's already on the page just not visible). > As someone who labels himself an anarchist, I wouldn't say that anarchy > means any thing goes. Part of it is community discussion and coming to > an agreement with everyone in that community. > > I think whether the background thing is needed should be discussed. It's > something that I could see easily lending itself to abuse, and even when > it makes a nice little addition, it's not an important feature anyway. I totally agree. It's cute, but I don't see a lot of demand for it, and there is no question that it can be abused. I think in the interest of purity and cleanliness, it should be removed. --Jimbo From phil.nelson at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 18:35:37 2008 From: phil.nelson at gmail.com (Christian Nelson) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:35:37 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <1229860565.6044.35.camel@daemonax-laptop> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229832531.6044.26.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229860565.6044.35.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: <36F26CC0-19FC-4C35-8DF1-2553ACA941E3@zerolives.org> On Dec 21, 2008, at 6:56 AM, Daemonax wrote: > Here's that mockup I said I'd try to get done. > > Very crude and only highlighting a few points. Sorry that it's rough, > I'm not an artist and haven't used image manipulation tools before. > > http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3509/mockupqv6.png > > I think other points I've made such as search pages, aka google and > every other search engine I know of, don't need to be illustrated. If > people really want infinite scrolling it should be an option they can > turn on, but not something set by default. The main problem with infinite scrolling is that it makes it hard to link to a given set of results, which is also systemic of a larger problem with Wikia Search: results could/will be changed in between my sending someone a link and them clicking on it. It is unreliable at best. The only fix I can think of is fairly complex: versioning of the entire search result set. Otherwise both points are significantly less useful. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui From jeremie at jabber.org Sun Dec 21 21:06:52 2008 From: jeremie at jabber.org (Jeremie Miller) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:06:52 -0600 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <1229860565.6044.35.camel@daemonax-laptop> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229832531.6044.26.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229860565.6044.35.camel@daemonax-laptop> Message-ID: This all reminds me of an effort I began back in October to deeply modularize all of the components specifically to enable easy skin/ theme-ing of the result pages... though the focus has been on fixing bugs and that revamp would be a major source of them so it's been on the back burner :) I've always thought we should be trying more, both in greatly simplified and more complex/powerful sets of user interfaces, that's where some of the random one-off forks in http://search.wikia.com/exp/ are from. The main/default skin should definitely get some more TCL though, one of the great things we can do is to keep trying new things and adapting. Jer On Dec 21, 2008, at 5:56 AM, Daemonax wrote: > Here's that mockup I said I'd try to get done. > > Very crude and only highlighting a few points. Sorry that it's rough, > I'm not an artist and haven't used image manipulation tools before. > > http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3509/mockupqv6.png > > I think other points I've made such as search pages, aka google and > every other search engine I know of, don't need to be illustrated. If > people really want infinite scrolling it should be an option they can > turn on, but not something set by default. > > > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui > From rainer.blome at gmx.de Wed Dec 24 09:29:45 2008 From: rainer.blome at gmx.de (Rainer Blome) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:29:45 +0100 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <36F26CC0-19FC-4C35-8DF1-2553ACA941E3@zerolives.org> References: <1229765794.7160.2.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229781335.7160.17.camel@daemonax-laptop> <494DAB23.1030300@gmx.de> <1229830898.6044.24.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229832531.6044.26.camel@daemonax-laptop> <1229860565.6044.35.camel@daemonax-laptop> <36F26CC0-19FC-4C35-8DF1-2553ACA941E3@zerolives.org> Message-ID: <49520109.2000503@gmx.de> Christian Nelson wrote: > The main problem with infinite scrolling is that it makes it hard to > link to a given set of results, which is also systemic of a larger > problem with Wikia Search: results could/will be changed in between my > sending someone a link and them clicking on it. It is unreliable at > best. The only fix I can think of is fairly complex: versioning of the > entire search result set. Otherwise both points are significantly less > useful. This "problem" is not unique to Wikia Search. Any search engine that ever changes the result order is affected. Therefore I do not see a difference to a search engine that uses a set of separate pages. Result sets and their order can change any time. There is no guarantee for a result to stay put, regardless of the way that the results are presented. If you want to link to a particular result, you could probably implement a "permalink to a particular result" feature (and for editable results it may even make sense)- but why would you want to link to the "5th page of the results for foo"? Rainer From rainer.blome at gmx.de Wed Dec 24 10:03:24 2008 From: rainer.blome at gmx.de (Rainer Blome) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:03:24 +0100 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. Message-ID: <495208EC.20709@gmx.de> [Looks like this did not get through (a problem with my mail server), resending it...] Christian Nelson wrote: > The main problem with infinite scrolling is that it makes it hard to > link to a given set of results, which is also systemic of a larger > problem with Wikia Search: results could/will be changed in between my > sending someone a link and them clicking on it. It is unreliable at > best. The only fix I can think of is fairly complex: versioning of the > entire search result set. Otherwise both points are significantly less > useful. This "problem" is not unique to Wikia Search. Any search engine that ever changes the result order is affected. Therefore I do not see a difference to a search engine that uses a set of separate pages. Result sets and their order can change any time. There is no guarantee for a result to stay put, regardless of the way that the results are presented. If you want to link to a particular result, you could probably implement a "permalink to a particular result" feature (and for editable results it may even make sense)- but why would you want to link to the "5th page of the results for foo"? Rainer From phil.nelson at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 17:10:02 2008 From: phil.nelson at gmail.com (Christian Nelson) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:10:02 -0500 Subject: [search-ui] Search Interface. In-Reply-To: <495208EC.20709@gmx.de> References: <495208EC.20709@gmx.de> Message-ID: <667E3825-911B-45BD-9779-1FBA999128A8@zerolives.org> On Dec 24, 2008, at 5:03 AM, Rainer Blome wrote: > [Looks like this did not get through (a problem with my mail server), > resending it...] > > Christian Nelson wrote: >> The main problem with infinite scrolling is that it makes it hard to >> link to a given set of results, which is also systemic of a larger >> problem with Wikia Search: results could/will be changed in between >> my >> sending someone a link and them clicking on it. It is unreliable at >> best. The only fix I can think of is fairly complex: versioning of >> the >> entire search result set. Otherwise both points are significantly >> less >> useful. > > This "problem" is not unique to Wikia Search. Any search engine that > ever changes the result order is affected. Therefore I do not see a > difference to a search engine that uses a set of separate pages. > Result > sets and their order can change any time. There is no guarantee for a > result to stay put, regardless of the way that the results are > presented. They can and do change but not from minute-to-minute, is my point. Wikis are all about being able to see the history and diffs of a page, why should this be any different? > > > If you want to link to a particular result, you could probably > implement > a "permalink to a particular result" feature (and for editable results > it may even make sense)- but why would you want to link to the "5th > page > of the results for foo"? SEO, analysis, maybe it is YOUR website down there? Maybe you are clustered on page 5 with 4 of your competitors and want to monitor the situation. There are plenty of reasons. > > > Rainer > > > _______________________________________________ > Search-UI mailing list > Search-UI at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/search-ui