[Search wiki] SearchWiki Digest, Vol 2, Issue 2
Jean-Pol Martin
jpm at ldl.de
Sat Feb 2 11:11:15 UTC 2008
Could somebody say to me why miniarticle-linking is awkward?
To the other point (mainspace): of course we should transfer the mini to
the main-namespace...
JPOL
searchwiki-request at wikia.com schrieb:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (Jimmy Wales)
> 2. Student motivation (Jean-Pol Martin)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 10:05:22 +0530
> From: Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace
> To: fredbaud at fairpoint.net, Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
> Message-ID: <47A3F30A.8030403 at wikia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Fred Bauder wrote:
>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini articles are
>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make internal
>> linking more straightforward. There is also the question of what the
>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief articles
>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article. Another is
>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term. Either
>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the mini
>> namespace is used in one of those ways, the question remains of what the
>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the search
>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you are
>> confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in front of it
>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>
> I have been in remote India with minimal net access for a few days so I
> might be way behind the times, but I agree with Fred completely. The
> mini articles need to be moved to the main namespace precisely to
> facilitate less awkward linking.
>
>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at Forum:Main
>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a policy page at
>> search:Main namespace
>
> Yay!
>
> --Jimbo
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:24:33 +0100
> From: Jean-Pol Martin <jpm at ldl.de>
> Subject: [Search wiki] Student motivation
> To: searchwiki at wikia.com
> Message-ID: <47A444E1.2090908 at ldl.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> "Very cool to hear, any ideas on what uses they find motivating/exciting?"
> - I'm the professor/teacher an I'm very motivated: I try to explain my
> students that they are changing the world and positioning themselves at
> the same time. Presenting oneself in the net ist absolute crucial fur
> the future and when my students are training creating relevant contents
> (miniarticle), they are working for the community AND for themselves
> (Profile-Sites)... As a researcher I was aware for 10 years that if y
> want to be "famous" I have to publish intensively in the net, not only
> in professional journals for teachers or researchers.
> I think the most exciting for the students is the Profile-Site with the
> many friends + the possibility to create article + the searchengine
> within one integrating frame.
>
> JPOL
>
>
> searchwiki-request at wikia.com schrieb:
>> Send SearchWiki mailing list submissions to
>> searchwiki at wikia.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> searchwiki-request at wikia.com
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of SearchWiki digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: SearchWiki Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9 (jer)
>> 2. Input wanted on Mini and main name spaces for Search Wikia
>> (Mark (Markie))
>> 3. Re: Forum:Main Namespace (Jimmy Wales)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:55:16 -0600
>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] SearchWiki Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
>> To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>> Message-ID: <3CDACD28-A236-4544-8161-6689323EF378 at jabber.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>> They definitely already are and will continue to be indexable by
>> Google or any other search, as well as are available under an open
>> content license for more direct re-use needs.
>>
>> Very cool to hear, any ideas on what uses they find motivating/exciting?
>>
>> Jer
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2008, at 12:17 AM, Jean-Pol Martin wrote:
>>
>>> My students are very motivated to write Miniarticles. And this
>>> motivation ist important if we want to educate young people creating
>>> knowledge together worldwide. But if the miniarticle don't appear in
>>> searchengines like google, I'm afraid that they will not work
>>> furter on
>>> this project. Please, give the miniarticle free for google...
>>>
>>> Jeanpol
>>>
>>> searchwiki-request at wikia.com schrieb:
>>>> Send SearchWiki mailing list submissions to
>>>> searchwiki at wikia.com
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> searchwiki-request at wikia.com
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> searchwiki-owner at wikia.com
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of SearchWiki digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: Scale of Search wiki (jer)
>>>> 2. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (jer)
>>>> 3. Re: Mini Articles and Use of the Main Namespace (jer)
>>>> 4. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (Mark (Markie))
>>>> 5. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (jer)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:50:02 -0600
>>>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Scale of Search wiki
>>>> To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>>> Message-ID: <59781F84-17EA-4650-87E8-E13A4995A30D at jabber.org>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>>> ... [A lot of great commentary and feedback] ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Some day, "search query" wikis such as the Wikia Search one will
>>>>> densely cover the fat middle. To me, the question is not if, but
>>>>> when, how many, and which ones. The race is on.
>>>> Although it's not present on the footers of the wiki yet (was lost w/
>>>> the new skin apparently), the mini articles are all under an open
>>>> content license: http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_copyrights.
>>>>
>>>> Jer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:49:09 -0600
>>>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace
>>>> To: fredbaud at fairpoint.net, Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>>> Message-ID: <199B81D5-89FF-4EF1-9847-3206408C35D4 at jabber.org>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini
>>>>>> articles are
>>>>>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>>>>> internal
>>>>>> linking more straightforward.
>>>> My inclination is to make almost all views of a mini article be in-
>>>> context, that you only see them in their search result. What reasons
>>>> are there to view them outside of that context?
>>>>
>>>>>> There is also the question of what the
>>>>>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief
>>>>>> articles
>>>>>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article.
>>>> If these are short as in a sentence or two I could see this, but when
>>>> they grow to be a body of "real" content, the actual answers to the
>>>> search term, I worry that it's becoming an answer service and not
>>>> something that compliments one of the core functions of a search
>>>> result, to direct people somewhere.
>>>>
>>>>>> Another is
>>>>>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term.
>>>> Disambig, as well as poorly formed queries, misspellings (that the
>>>> currently non-existant did-you-mean feature might not cover), and
>>>> "hot" or fresh searches (like news, memes, so on) that are always
>>>> harder with algorithmic approaches.
>>>>
>>>> What about the usage of mini articles for straight up "this is the
>>>> best link and isn't in the search result!" ? Shouldn't we support
>>>> this and use that data to index and improve the rankings? Is it a
>>>> problem to support that usage?
>>>>
>>>>>> Either
>>>>>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the mini
>>>>>> namespace is used in one of those ways, the question remains of
>>>>>> what the
>>>>>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the
>>>>>> search
>>>>>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you are
>>>>>> confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in front
>>>>>> of it
>>>>>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As an alternative, I suggest that we continue with the mini
>>>>>> articles as
>>>>>> a brief introduction to the subject and reserve the main namespace
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> an intensive disambiguation of its subject, including suggestions
>>>>>> regarding how to use appropriate keywords to refine searches to
>>>>>> get good
>>>>>> results for various possibilities. Whether our projected user base
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> actively use and develop such pages remains to be seen, although I
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> it enjoyable.
>>>> I'm starting to agree with this line of thought, and thinking that it
>>>> might be good if Mini: is limited to a very small size, few
>>>> sentences, and can add a "see more" which links to a regular article
>>>> on the topic. We can set it up so that the Mini's are only viewed,
>>>> created, and edited in the search result page directly.
>>>>
>>>> Am I at odds with current thoughts on this, or does it sound
>>>> reasonable?
>>>>
>>>>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at Forum:Main
>>>>>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a policy
>>>>>> page
>>>>>> at search:Main namespace
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fred Bauder
>>>>> Here's a suggested treatment I kind of like:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. As an alternative to maintaining separate articles, the
>>>>> "mini"
>>>>> content could be maintained as a part of a larger article, for
>>>>> example
>>>>> in the form of a formal "Summary" section. That section would
>>>>> need to
>>>>> be extracted on the fly. Would this work?
>>>>> 2. You have put the big, "encyclopedic" disambiguation article
>>>>> in the
>>>>> main space, and the "dictionary" article (which also provides some
>>>>> disambiguation, which is good) in the Mini space. To keep the
>>>>> bulk of
>>>>> links and articles simple, I would prefer to do it the other way
>>>>> around: Put the small, "mini" article in the main space and the
>>>>> large,
>>>>> detailed one in a different namespace, such as "dis[ambiguation]" or
>>>>> "extended". Or give it an extension, as in "innocence/
>>>>> disambiguation"
>>>>> or "innocence (disambiguation)".
>>>>> My guess is that there will always be many more small articles
>>>>> than
>>>>> large ones. Keeping the bulk of the articles in the main space will
>>>>> make linking simpler. Notice all those "create" and "edit" links in
>>>>> parentheses behind the "search query" (keyword?) links. Currently,
>>>>> they all point to Mini. Most links will intend to refer to the small
>>>>> articles. The namespace prefix would vanish, simplifying the links.
>>>>> --RainerBlome 00:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps the extended articles could use the Search namespace and we
>>>>> could
>>>>> put policy in some other namespace such as policy.
>>>> If interacting with Mini: is abstracted/hidden through the search
>>>> result page, I think it would be best to keep it the way it is, so
>>>> the regular articles are in the regular namespace.
>>>>
>>>> One *very* long term thinking is that others could mimic the "Mini:"
>>>> namespace on their own wiki's, and a crawler can build a database of
>>>> mini articles from any wiki on the web.
>>>>
>>>> Jer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:50:45 -0600
>>>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Articles and Use of the Main
>>>> Namespace
>>>> To: fredbaud at fairpoint.net, Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>>> Message-ID: <496F37F0-515B-4E91-8690-8BA6B6EB7913 at jabber.org>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>>>> Why don't we keep this discussion on
>>>>>> http://search.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Main_Namespace ? Regarding the
>>>>>> distinction between "mini" and "maxi" content, I sort of replied
>>>>>> there.
>>>>> Because I was asked to post the issue here, which make sense as
>>>>> conversation about fundamental policies affecting the structure
>>>>> of the
>>>>> site needs to be where as many folks as possible can see it and
>>>>> participate.
>>>> That was me that asked, I've honestly not had enough attention to
>>>> additionally cover/track the forums on the wiki :(
>>>>
>>>> Jer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:59:54 +0000
>>>> From: "Mark (Markie)" <newsmarkie at googlemail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace
>>>> To: "Search Wiki" <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <a6424d870801251459h7ccd3d6ah5b9de175456ed90c at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>> hmm what would be peoples thought of using wp content in the main
>>>> space,
>>>> which could either be local copies or dynamically called, with local
>>>> overwrite possible, so that we can have minis with "more here"
>>>> which then
>>>> links to pages which have either been specially adapted written
>>>> locally or
>>>> then just falls back onto wp (or should be just have a kinda "if
>>>> local
>>>> exists then use that, if not link directly to wp" thing)
>>>>
>>>> thoughts
>>>>
>>>> mark
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 25, 2008 10:49 PM, jer <jeremie at jabber.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini
>>>>>>> articles are
>>>>>>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>>>>>> internal
>>>>>>> linking more straightforward.
>>>>> My inclination is to make almost all views of a mini article be in-
>>>>> context, that you only see them in their search result. What
>>>>> reasons
>>>>> are there to view them outside of that context?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is also the question of what the
>>>>>>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief
>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article.
>>>>> If these are short as in a sentence or two I could see this, but
>>>>> when
>>>>> they grow to be a body of "real" content, the actual answers to the
>>>>> search term, I worry that it's becoming an answer service and not
>>>>> something that compliments one of the core functions of a search
>>>>> result, to direct people somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another is
>>>>>>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term.
>>>>> Disambig, as well as poorly formed queries, misspellings (that the
>>>>> currently non-existant did-you-mean feature might not cover), and
>>>>> "hot" or fresh searches (like news, memes, so on) that are always
>>>>> harder with algorithmic approaches.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about the usage of mini articles for straight up "this is the
>>>>> best link and isn't in the search result!" ? Shouldn't we support
>>>>> this and use that data to index and improve the rankings? Is it a
>>>>> problem to support that usage?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the mini
>>>>>>> namespace is used in one of those ways, the question remains of
>>>>>>> what the
>>>>>>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the
>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in front
>>>>>>> of it
>>>>>>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an alternative, I suggest that we continue with the mini
>>>>>>> articles as
>>>>>>> a brief introduction to the subject and reserve the main namespace
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> an intensive disambiguation of its subject, including suggestions
>>>>>>> regarding how to use appropriate keywords to refine searches to
>>>>>>> get good
>>>>>>> results for various possibilities. Whether our projected user base
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> actively use and develop such pages remains to be seen, although I
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> it enjoyable.
>>>>> I'm starting to agree with this line of thought, and thinking
>>>>> that it
>>>>> might be good if Mini: is limited to a very small size, few
>>>>> sentences, and can add a "see more" which links to a regular article
>>>>> on the topic. We can set it up so that the Mini's are only viewed,
>>>>> created, and edited in the search result page directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I at odds with current thoughts on this, or does it sound
>>>>> reasonable?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at
>>>>>>> Forum:Main
>>>>>>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a policy
>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>> at search:Main namespace
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fred Bauder
>>>>>> Here's a suggested treatment I kind of like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. As an alternative to maintaining separate articles, the
>>>>>> "mini"
>>>>>> content could be maintained as a part of a larger article, for
>>>>>> example
>>>>>> in the form of a formal "Summary" section. That section would
>>>>>> need to
>>>>>> be extracted on the fly. Would this work?
>>>>>> 2. You have put the big, "encyclopedic" disambiguation article
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> main space, and the "dictionary" article (which also provides some
>>>>>> disambiguation, which is good) in the Mini space. To keep the
>>>>>> bulk of
>>>>>> links and articles simple, I would prefer to do it the other way
>>>>>> around: Put the small, "mini" article in the main space and the
>>>>>> large,
>>>>>> detailed one in a different namespace, such as "dis
>>>>>> [ambiguation]" or
>>>>>> "extended". Or give it an extension, as in "innocence/
>>>>>> disambiguation"
>>>>>> or "innocence (disambiguation)".
>>>>>> My guess is that there will always be many more small articles
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> large ones. Keeping the bulk of the articles in the main space will
>>>>>> make linking simpler. Notice all those "create" and "edit" links in
>>>>>> parentheses behind the "search query" (keyword?) links. Currently,
>>>>>> they all point to Mini. Most links will intend to refer to the
>>>>>> small
>>>>>> articles. The namespace prefix would vanish, simplifying the links.
>>>>>> --RainerBlome 00:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps the extended articles could use the Search namespace and we
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> put policy in some other namespace such as policy.
>>>>> If interacting with Mini: is abstracted/hidden through the search
>>>>> result page, I think it would be best to keep it the way it is, so
>>>>> the regular articles are in the regular namespace.
>>>>>
>>>>> One *very* long term thinking is that others could mimic the "Mini:"
>>>>> namespace on their own wiki's, and a crawler can build a database of
>>>>> mini articles from any wiki on the web.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jer
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>> URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/searchwiki/attachments/
>>>> 20080125/dd1e081e/attachment-0001.html
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 5
>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:14:45 -0600
>>>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace
>>>> To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>>> Message-ID: <2806B96B-085F-4563-AED5-EA8C95AE9F41 at jabber.org>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> Once we have wikipedia crawled/imported, it's flagged as a whitelist
>>>> so WP results should show up at the top of any search as the first
>>>> hit, for close or exact matching keywords.
>>>>
>>>> I could see integrating closely with WP's disambig pages, but the
>>>> bulk of the content should just be a normal search result, no need to
>>>> special case it is there?
>>>>
>>>> Jer
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 25, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Mark (Markie) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hmm what would be peoples thought of using wp content in the main
>>>>> space, which could either be local copies or dynamically called,
>>>>> with local overwrite possible, so that we can have minis with "more
>>>>> here" which then links to pages which have either been specially
>>>>> adapted written locally or then just falls back onto wp (or should
>>>>> be just have a kinda "if local exists then use that, if not link
>>>>> directly to wp" thing)
>>>>>
>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>
>>>>> mark
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 25, 2008 10:49 PM, jer <jeremie at jabber.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini
>>>>>>> articles are
>>>>>>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>>>>>> internal
>>>>>>> linking more straightforward.
>>>>> My inclination is to make almost all views of a mini article be in-
>>>>> context, that you only see them in their search result. What
>>>>> reasons
>>>>> are there to view them outside of that context?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is also the question of what the
>>>>>>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief
>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article.
>>>>> If these are short as in a sentence or two I could see this, but
>>>>> when
>>>>> they grow to be a body of "real" content, the actual answers to the
>>>>> search term, I worry that it's becoming an answer service and not
>>>>> something that compliments one of the core functions of a search
>>>>> result, to direct people somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another is
>>>>>>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term.
>>>>> Disambig, as well as poorly formed queries, misspellings (that the
>>>>> currently non-existant did-you-mean feature might not cover), and
>>>>> "hot" or fresh searches (like news, memes, so on) that are always
>>>>> harder with algorithmic approaches.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about the usage of mini articles for straight up "this is the
>>>>> best link and isn't in the search result!" ? Shouldn't we support
>>>>> this and use that data to index and improve the rankings? Is it a
>>>>> problem to support that usage?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the mini
>>>>>>> namespace is used in one of those ways, the question remains of
>>>>>>> what the
>>>>>>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the
>>>>> search
>>>>>>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in front
>>>>>>> of it
>>>>>>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an alternative, I suggest that we continue with the mini
>>>>>>> articles as
>>>>>>> a brief introduction to the subject and reserve the main namespace
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> an intensive disambiguation of its subject, including suggestions
>>>>>>> regarding how to use appropriate keywords to refine searches to
>>>>>>> get good
>>>>>>> results for various possibilities. Whether our projected user base
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> actively use and develop such pages remains to be seen, although I
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> it enjoyable.
>>>>> I'm starting to agree with this line of thought, and thinking
>>>>> that it
>>>>> might be good if Mini: is limited to a very small size, few
>>>>> sentences, and can add a "see more" which links to a regular article
>>>>> on the topic. We can set it up so that the Mini's are only viewed,
>>>>> created, and edited in the search result page directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I at odds with current thoughts on this, or does it sound
>>>>> reasonable?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at
>>>>>>> Forum:Main
>>>>>>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a policy
>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>> at search:Main namespace
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fred Bauder
>>>>>> Here's a suggested treatment I kind of like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. As an alternative to maintaining separate articles, the
>>>>> "mini"
>>>>>> content could be maintained as a part of a larger article, for
>>>>> example
>>>>>> in the form of a formal "Summary" section. That section would
>>>>> need to
>>>>>> be extracted on the fly. Would this work?
>>>>>> 2. You have put the big, "encyclopedic" disambiguation article
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> main space, and the "dictionary" article (which also provides some
>>>>>> disambiguation, which is good) in the Mini space. To keep the
>>>>> bulk of
>>>>>> links and articles simple, I would prefer to do it the other way
>>>>>> around: Put the small, "mini" article in the main space and the
>>>>> large,
>>>>>> detailed one in a different namespace, such as "dis
>>>>>> [ambiguation]" or
>>>>>> "extended". Or give it an extension, as in "innocence/
>>>>> disambiguation"
>>>>>> or "innocence (disambiguation)".
>>>>>> My guess is that there will always be many more small articles
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> large ones. Keeping the bulk of the articles in the main space will
>>>>>> make linking simpler. Notice all those "create" and "edit" links in
>>>>>> parentheses behind the "search query" (keyword?) links. Currently,
>>>>>> they all point to Mini. Most links will intend to refer to the
>>>>>> small
>>>>>> articles. The namespace prefix would vanish, simplifying the links.
>>>>>> --RainerBlome 00:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps the extended articles could use the Search namespace and we
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> put policy in some other namespace such as policy.
>>>>> If interacting with Mini: is abstracted/hidden through the search
>>>>> result page, I think it would be best to keep it the way it is, so
>>>>> the regular articles are in the regular namespace.
>>>>>
>>>>> One *very* long term thinking is that others could mimic the "Mini:"
>>>>> namespace on their own wiki's, and a crawler can build a database of
>>>>> mini articles from any wiki on the web.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jer
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SearchWiki mailing list
>>>> SearchWiki at wikia.com
>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> End of SearchWiki Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
>>>> ****************************************
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Prof. Dr. Jean-Pol Martin
>>> Didaktik der franz?sischen
>>> Sprache und Literatur
>>> Universit?t, Zi. 240
>>> 85071 Eichst?tt
>>> Tel. (08421) 93-1536
>>> Fax: (08421) 93-1797
>>> http://projektkompetenz.de/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:06:27 +0000
>> From: "Mark (Markie)" <newsmarkie at googlemail.com>
>> Subject: [Search wiki] Input wanted on Mini and main name spaces for
>> Search Wikia
>> To: "Mailing list for Search Wikia" <search-l at wikia.com>, "Search
>> Wiki" <searchwiki at wikia.com>, "Jimmy Wales" <jwales at wikia.com>, jer
>> <jeremie at jabber.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> <a6424d870802010706t3da4f35dk85bbb4001f3ecbd4 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Right im being bold here, so sorry if anyone has problems with this.
>>
>> Currently there is not really any definite policy on what is acceptable in,
>> and what should not be in mini: articles for Search Wikia. This means that
>> as an admin on the wiki I, and other admins, have difficulty in deciding
>> what should be allowed to stay and what should be in the articles. It also
>> means trouble for people who are trying to contribute as there isn't really
>> a list of what should and shouldn't be in the mini articles.
>>
>> So I'm suggesting the following to try and get this sorted. Go to this page
>> :- *http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:Mini_article/Policy_discussion*<http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:Mini_article/Policy_discussion>
>>
>> This page is to be used for the posting and discussion of ideas for the
>> policy on Mini: articles, Search:Mini
>> article<http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:Mini_article>,
>> and what they should contain. As the main name space, (the namespace with no
>> prefix) is an alternative location for content, the question of what the
>> main name space is to be used for is also under consideration, see Search:Main
>> namespace <http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:Main_namespace> for one
>> alternative use. Please post ideas below and then these will be discussed
>> until *February 8, 2008*. From then until *February 15, 2008* various
>> versions of the policy will be drawn up.
>>
>> More details are on the wiki page, please check there. Please add your
>> inputs.
>>
>> Thanks all and hope i haven't upset anyone.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Mark
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 10:00:58 +0530
>> From: Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Forum:Main Namespace
>> To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>> Message-ID: <47A3F202.8040000 at wikia.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> I tend to side with Angela in this little mini-debate about
>> mini-articles. :) While the mini-articles should be thought of as being
>> primarily a part of a broader search-result page, they probably can and
>> will be linked to by others, and that's almost certainly ok.
>>
>> jer wrote:
>>>> If the mini-articles contain quality information, people will link to
>>>> them from elsewhere. I think these pages have the potential to be
>>>> useful in many more contexts than just Wikia Search.
>>> That raises an interesting question, should they even be accessible
>>> outside of the search result screen? What if you can only view a
>>> mini-article in it's native environment, in a search result?
>>>
>>> We're all still learning exactly what they are of course, so my $0.02
>>> is that their very definition is being part of a search result and
>>> any other uses may be diluting their value as that.
>>>
>>>> The mini-article on Visvo is the 3rd hit in... that other search
>>>> engine and I expect a lot of people will come across mini-articles
>>>> that way. http://www.google.com/search?q=Visvo
>>> Even still, http://mini.search.wikia.com vs. http://search.wikia.com
>>> seems pretty insignificant a difference there?
>>>
>>> Jer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SearchWiki mailing list
>> SearchWiki at wikia.com
>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>
>>
>> End of SearchWiki Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1
>> ****************************************
>>
>
--
Prof. Dr. Jean-Pol Martin
Didaktik der französischen
Sprache und Literatur
Universität, Zi. 240
85071 Eichstätt
Tel. (08421) 93-1536
Fax: (08421) 93-1797
http://projektkompetenz.de/
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