[Search wiki] Miniarticle-Linking Is Awkward
Fred Bauder
fredbaud at fairpoint.net
Sat Feb 2 15:54:34 UTC 2008
To make a link to say soap one must craft it thus, [[Mini:Soap|soap]].
That is irritating and awkward to me, but incomprehensible to a first time
user, as is the other frequent coding, {{k|soap}} which will search for
soap. {{k}} is short for (and redirected to) Template:Keyword. Simplicity
in coding is vital; [[subject]] and [external link] are what we should
present to new users, see Mini:Keep It Simple Stupid
Fred Bauder
> Could somebody say to me why miniarticle-linking is awkward?
> To the other point (mainspace): of course we should transfer the mini to
> the main-namespace...
> JPOL
>
> searchwiki-request at wikia.com schrieb:
>> Send SearchWiki mailing list submissions to
>> searchwiki at wikia.com
>>
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (Jimmy Wales) 2.
>> Student motivation (Jean-Pol Martin)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 10:05:22 +0530
>> From: Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace
>> To: fredbaud at fairpoint.net, Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>> Message-ID: <47A3F30A.8030403 at wikia.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Fred Bauder wrote:
>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini articles
>>> are awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>> internal linking more straightforward. There is also the question of
>>> what the content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is
>>> brief articles about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia
>>> article. Another is adding significant material about disambiguation
>>> of the term. Either alternative could occur in the mini or main
>>> namespace. If the mini namespace is used in one of those ways, the
>>> question remains of what the main namespace is is used for. I have
>>> tentatively assumed the search namespace is for policy, the help
>>> namespace is for help. If you are confused, the main namespace is an
>>> article with nothing in front of it ([[Apple]] rather than
>>> [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>
>> I have been in remote India with minimal net access for a few days so
>> I might be way behind the times, but I agree with Fred completely.
>> The mini articles need to be moved to the main namespace precisely to
>> facilitate less awkward linking.
>>
>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at Forum:Main
>>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a policy
>>> page at search:Main namespace
>>
>> Yay!
>>
>> --Jimbo
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:24:33 +0100
>> From: Jean-Pol Martin <jpm at ldl.de>
>> Subject: [Search wiki] Student motivation
>> To: searchwiki at wikia.com
>> Message-ID: <47A444E1.2090908 at ldl.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> "Very cool to hear, any ideas on what uses they find
>> motivating/exciting?" - I'm the professor/teacher an I'm very
>> motivated: I try to explain my students that they are changing the
>> world and positioning themselves at the same time. Presenting oneself
>> in the net ist absolute crucial fur the future and when my students
>> are training creating relevant contents (miniarticle), they are
>> working for the community AND for themselves (Profile-Sites)... As a
>> researcher I was aware for 10 years that if y want to be "famous" I
>> have to publish intensively in the net, not only in professional
>> journals for teachers or researchers.
>> I think the most exciting for the students is the Profile-Site with
>> the many friends + the possibility to create article + the
>> searchengine within one integrating frame.
>>
>> JPOL
>>
>>
>> searchwiki-request at wikia.com schrieb:
>>> Send SearchWiki mailing list submissions to
>>> searchwiki at wikia.com
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> searchwiki-request at wikia.com
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> searchwiki-owner at wikia.com
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of SearchWiki digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: SearchWiki Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9 (jer)
>>> 2. Input wanted on Mini and main name spaces for Search Wikia
>>> (Mark (Markie))
>>> 3. Re: Forum:Main Namespace (Jimmy Wales)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:55:16 -0600
>>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] SearchWiki Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
>>> To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>> Message-ID: <3CDACD28-A236-4544-8161-6689323EF378 at jabber.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes;
>>> format=flowed
>>>
>>> They definitely already are and will continue to be indexable by
>>> Google or any other search, as well as are available under an open
>>> content license for more direct re-use needs.
>>>
>>> Very cool to hear, any ideas on what uses they find
>>> motivating/exciting?
>>>
>>> Jer
>>>
>>> On Jan 26, 2008, at 12:17 AM, Jean-Pol Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> My students are very motivated to write Miniarticles. And this
>>>> motivation ist important if we want to educate young people creating
>>>> knowledge together worldwide. But if the miniarticle don't appear in
>>>> searchengines like google, I'm afraid that they will not work
>>>> furter on
>>>> this project. Please, give the miniarticle free for google...
>>>>
>>>> Jeanpol
>>>>
>>>> searchwiki-request at wikia.com schrieb:
>>>>> Send SearchWiki mailing list submissions to
>>>>> searchwiki at wikia.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>> searchwiki-request at wikia.com
>>>>>
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>> searchwiki-owner at wikia.com
>>>>>
>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>> than "Re: Contents of SearchWiki digest..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Re: Scale of Search wiki (jer)
>>>>> 2. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (jer)
>>>>> 3. Re: Mini Articles and Use of the Main Namespace (jer)
>>>>> 4. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (Mark
>>>>> (Markie)) 5. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace
>>>>> (jer)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:50:02 -0600
>>>>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Scale of Search wiki
>>>>> To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>>>> Message-ID: <59781F84-17EA-4650-87E8-E13A4995A30D at jabber.org>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
>>>>> format=flowed
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... [A lot of great commentary and feedback] ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some day, "search query" wikis such as the Wikia Search one will
>>>>>> densely cover the fat middle. To me, the question is not if, but
>>>>>> when, how many, and which ones. The race is on.
>>>>> Although it's not present on the footers of the wiki yet (was lost
>>>>> w/ the new skin apparently), the mini articles are all under an
>>>>> open content license: http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_copyrights.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:49:09 -0600
>>>>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main
>>>>> Namespace To: fredbaud at fairpoint.net, Search Wiki
>>>>> <searchwiki at wikia.com> Message-ID:
>>>>> <199B81D5-89FF-4EF1-9847-3206408C35D4 at jabber.org> Content-Type:
>>>>> text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini
>>>>>>> articles are
>>>>>>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>>>>>> internal
>>>>>>> linking more straightforward.
>>>>> My inclination is to make almost all views of a mini article be in-
>>>>> context, that you only see them in their search result. What
>>>>> reasons are there to view them outside of that context?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is also the question of what the
>>>>>>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief
>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article.
>>>>> If these are short as in a sentence or two I could see this, but
>>>>> when they grow to be a body of "real" content, the actual answers
>>>>> to the search term, I worry that it's becoming an answer service
>>>>> and not something that compliments one of the core functions of a
>>>>> search result, to direct people somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another is
>>>>>>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term.
>>>>> Disambig, as well as poorly formed queries, misspellings (that the
>>>>> currently non-existant did-you-mean feature might not cover), and
>>>>> "hot" or fresh searches (like news, memes, so on) that are always
>>>>> harder with algorithmic approaches.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about the usage of mini articles for straight up "this is the
>>>>> best link and isn't in the search result!" ? Shouldn't we support
>>>>> this and use that data to index and improve the rankings? Is it a
>>>>> problem to support that usage?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the
>>>>>>> mini namespace is used in one of those ways, the question remains
>>>>>>> of what the
>>>>>>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the
>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you
>>>>>>> are confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in
>>>>>>> front of it
>>>>>>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an alternative, I suggest that we continue with the mini
>>>>>>> articles as
>>>>>>> a brief introduction to the subject and reserve the main
>>>>>>> namespace for
>>>>>>> an intensive disambiguation of its subject, including suggestions
>>>>>>> regarding how to use appropriate keywords to refine searches to
>>>>>>> get good
>>>>>>> results for various possibilities. Whether our projected user
>>>>>>> base would
>>>>>>> actively use and develop such pages remains to be seen, although
>>>>>>> I find
>>>>>>> it enjoyable.
>>>>> I'm starting to agree with this line of thought, and thinking that
>>>>> it might be good if Mini: is limited to a very small size, few
>>>>> sentences, and can add a "see more" which links to a regular
>>>>> article on the topic. We can set it up so that the Mini's are only
>>>>> viewed, created, and edited in the search result page directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I at odds with current thoughts on this, or does it sound
>>>>> reasonable?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at
>>>>>>> Forum:Main Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally
>>>>>>> advance a policy page
>>>>>>> at search:Main namespace
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fred Bauder
>>>>>> Here's a suggested treatment I kind of like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. As an alternative to maintaining separate articles, the
>>>>>> "mini"
>>>>>> content could be maintained as a part of a larger article, for
>>>>>> example
>>>>>> in the form of a formal "Summary" section. That section would
>>>>>> need to
>>>>>> be extracted on the fly. Would this work?
>>>>>> 2. You have put the big, "encyclopedic" disambiguation article
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> main space, and the "dictionary" article (which also provides some
>>>>>> disambiguation, which is good) in the Mini space. To keep the
>>>>>> bulk of
>>>>>> links and articles simple, I would prefer to do it the other way
>>>>>> around: Put the small, "mini" article in the main space and the
>>>>>> large,
>>>>>> detailed one in a different namespace, such as "dis[ambiguation]"
>>>>>> or "extended". Or give it an extension, as in "innocence/
>>>>>> disambiguation"
>>>>>> or "innocence (disambiguation)".
>>>>>> My guess is that there will always be many more small articles
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> large ones. Keeping the bulk of the articles in the main space
>>>>>> will make linking simpler. Notice all those "create" and "edit"
>>>>>> links in parentheses behind the "search query" (keyword?) links.
>>>>>> Currently, they all point to Mini. Most links will intend to refer
>>>>>> to the small articles. The namespace prefix would vanish,
>>>>>> simplifying the links.
>>>>>> --RainerBlome 00:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps the extended articles could use the Search namespace and
>>>>>> we could
>>>>>> put policy in some other namespace such as policy.
>>>>> If interacting with Mini: is abstracted/hidden through the search
>>>>> result page, I think it would be best to keep it the way it is, so
>>>>> the regular articles are in the regular namespace.
>>>>>
>>>>> One *very* long term thinking is that others could mimic the
>>>>> "Mini:" namespace on their own wiki's, and a crawler can build a
>>>>> database of mini articles from any wiki on the web.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:50:45 -0600
>>>>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Articles and Use of the Main
>>>>> Namespace
>>>>> To: fredbaud at fairpoint.net, Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>>>> Message-ID: <496F37F0-515B-4E91-8690-8BA6B6EB7913 at jabber.org>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
>>>>> format=flowed
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why don't we keep this discussion on
>>>>>>> http://search.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Main_Namespace ? Regarding
>>>>>>> the distinction between "mini" and "maxi" content, I sort of
>>>>>>> replied there.
>>>>>> Because I was asked to post the issue here, which make sense as
>>>>>> conversation about fundamental policies affecting the structure
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> site needs to be where as many folks as possible can see it and
>>>>>> participate.
>>>>> That was me that asked, I've honestly not had enough attention to
>>>>> additionally cover/track the forums on the wiki :(
>>>>>
>>>>> Jer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:59:54 +0000
>>>>> From: "Mark (Markie)" <newsmarkie at googlemail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main
>>>>> Namespace To: "Search Wiki" <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <a6424d870801251459h7ccd3d6ah5b9de175456ed90c at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>
>>>>> hmm what would be peoples thought of using wp content in the main
>>>>> space,
>>>>> which could either be local copies or dynamically called, with
>>>>> local overwrite possible, so that we can have minis with "more
>>>>> here" which then
>>>>> links to pages which have either been specially adapted written
>>>>> locally or
>>>>> then just falls back onto wp (or should be just have a kinda "if
>>>>> local
>>>>> exists then use that, if not link directly to wp" thing)
>>>>>
>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>
>>>>> mark
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 25, 2008 10:49 PM, jer <jeremie at jabber.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini
>>>>>>>> articles are
>>>>>>>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>>>>>>> internal
>>>>>>>> linking more straightforward.
>>>>>> My inclination is to make almost all views of a mini article be
>>>>>> in- context, that you only see them in their search result. What
>>>>>> reasons
>>>>>> are there to view them outside of that context?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is also the question of what the
>>>>>>>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief
>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article.
>>>>>> If these are short as in a sentence or two I could see this, but
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> they grow to be a body of "real" content, the actual answers to
>>>>>> the search term, I worry that it's becoming an answer service and
>>>>>> not something that compliments one of the core functions of a
>>>>>> search result, to direct people somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another is
>>>>>>>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term.
>>>>>> Disambig, as well as poorly formed queries, misspellings (that the
>>>>>> currently non-existant did-you-mean feature might not cover), and
>>>>>> "hot" or fresh searches (like news, memes, so on) that are always
>>>>>> harder with algorithmic approaches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about the usage of mini articles for straight up "this is the
>>>>>> best link and isn't in the search result!" ? Shouldn't we support
>>>>>> this and use that data to index and improve the rankings? Is it a
>>>>>> problem to support that usage?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the
>>>>>>>> mini namespace is used in one of those ways, the question
>>>>>>>> remains of what the
>>>>>>>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the
>>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in front
>>>>>>>> of it
>>>>>>>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As an alternative, I suggest that we continue with the mini
>>>>>>>> articles as
>>>>>>>> a brief introduction to the subject and reserve the main
>>>>>>>> namespace for
>>>>>>>> an intensive disambiguation of its subject, including
>>>>>>>> suggestions regarding how to use appropriate keywords to refine
>>>>>>>> searches to get good
>>>>>>>> results for various possibilities. Whether our projected user
>>>>>>>> base would
>>>>>>>> actively use and develop such pages remains to be seen, although
>>>>>>>> I find
>>>>>>>> it enjoyable.
>>>>>> I'm starting to agree with this line of thought, and thinking
>>>>>> that it
>>>>>> might be good if Mini: is limited to a very small size, few
>>>>>> sentences, and can add a "see more" which links to a regular
>>>>>> article on the topic. We can set it up so that the Mini's are
>>>>>> only viewed, created, and edited in the search result page
>>>>>> directly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am I at odds with current thoughts on this, or does it sound
>>>>>> reasonable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at
>>>>>>>> Forum:Main
>>>>>>>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a
>>>>>>>> policy page
>>>>>>>> at search:Main namespace
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fred Bauder
>>>>>>> Here's a suggested treatment I kind of like:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. As an alternative to maintaining separate articles, the
>>>>>>> "mini"
>>>>>>> content could be maintained as a part of a larger article, for
>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>> in the form of a formal "Summary" section. That section would
>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>> be extracted on the fly. Would this work?
>>>>>>> 2. You have put the big, "encyclopedic" disambiguation
>>>>>>> article
>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>> main space, and the "dictionary" article (which also provides
>>>>>>> some disambiguation, which is good) in the Mini space. To keep
>>>>>>> the bulk of
>>>>>>> links and articles simple, I would prefer to do it the other way
>>>>>>> around: Put the small, "mini" article in the main space and the
>>>>>>> large,
>>>>>>> detailed one in a different namespace, such as "dis
>>>>>>> [ambiguation]" or
>>>>>>> "extended". Or give it an extension, as in "innocence/
>>>>>>> disambiguation"
>>>>>>> or "innocence (disambiguation)".
>>>>>>> My guess is that there will always be many more small
>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> large ones. Keeping the bulk of the articles in the main space
>>>>>>> will make linking simpler. Notice all those "create" and "edit"
>>>>>>> links in parentheses behind the "search query" (keyword?) links.
>>>>>>> Currently, they all point to Mini. Most links will intend to
>>>>>>> refer to the small
>>>>>>> articles. The namespace prefix would vanish, simplifying the
>>>>>>> links.
>>>>>>> --RainerBlome 00:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps the extended articles could use the Search namespace and
>>>>>>> we could
>>>>>>> put policy in some other namespace such as policy.
>>>>>> If interacting with Mini: is abstracted/hidden through the search
>>>>>> result page, I think it would be best to keep it the way it is, so
>>>>>> the regular articles are in the regular namespace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One *very* long term thinking is that others could mimic the
>>>>>> "Mini:" namespace on their own wiki's, and a crawler can build a
>>>>>> database of mini articles from any wiki on the web.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>>>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>>>
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/searchwiki/attachments/
>>>>> 20080125/dd1e081e/attachment-0001.html
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 5
>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:14:45 -0600
>>>>> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main
>>>>> Namespace To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>>>> Message-ID: <2806B96B-085F-4563-AED5-EA8C95AE9F41 at jabber.org>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
>>>>> format=flowed
>>>>>
>>>>> Once we have wikipedia crawled/imported, it's flagged as a
>>>>> whitelist so WP results should show up at the top of any search as
>>>>> the first hit, for close or exact matching keywords.
>>>>>
>>>>> I could see integrating closely with WP's disambig pages, but the
>>>>> bulk of the content should just be a normal search result, no need
>>>>> to special case it is there?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jer
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 25, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Mark (Markie) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> hmm what would be peoples thought of using wp content in the main
>>>>>> space, which could either be local copies or dynamically called,
>>>>>> with local overwrite possible, so that we can have minis with
>>>>>> "more here" which then links to pages which have either been
>>>>>> specially adapted written locally or then just falls back onto wp
>>>>>> (or should be just have a kinda "if local exists then use that, if
>>>>>> not link directly to wp" thing)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 25, 2008 10:49 PM, jer <jeremie at jabber.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini
>>>>>>>> articles are
>>>>>>>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>>>>>>> internal
>>>>>>>> linking more straightforward.
>>>>>> My inclination is to make almost all views of a mini article be
>>>>>> in- context, that you only see them in their search result. What
>>>>>> reasons
>>>>>> are there to view them outside of that context?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is also the question of what the
>>>>>>>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief
>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article.
>>>>>> If these are short as in a sentence or two I could see this, but
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> they grow to be a body of "real" content, the actual answers to
>>>>>> the search term, I worry that it's becoming an answer service and
>>>>>> not something that compliments one of the core functions of a
>>>>>> search result, to direct people somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another is
>>>>>>>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term.
>>>>>> Disambig, as well as poorly formed queries, misspellings (that the
>>>>>> currently non-existant did-you-mean feature might not cover), and
>>>>>> "hot" or fresh searches (like news, memes, so on) that are always
>>>>>> harder with algorithmic approaches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about the usage of mini articles for straight up "this is the
>>>>>> best link and isn't in the search result!" ? Shouldn't we support
>>>>>> this and use that data to index and improve the rankings? Is it a
>>>>>> problem to support that usage?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the
>>>>>>>> mini namespace is used in one of those ways, the question
>>>>>>>> remains of what the
>>>>>>>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the
>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in front
>>>>>>>> of it
>>>>>>>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As an alternative, I suggest that we continue with the mini
>>>>>>>> articles as
>>>>>>>> a brief introduction to the subject and reserve the main
>>>>>>>> namespace for
>>>>>>>> an intensive disambiguation of its subject, including
>>>>>>>> suggestions regarding how to use appropriate keywords to refine
>>>>>>>> searches to get good
>>>>>>>> results for various possibilities. Whether our projected user
>>>>>>>> base would
>>>>>>>> actively use and develop such pages remains to be seen, although
>>>>>>>> I find
>>>>>>>> it enjoyable.
>>>>>> I'm starting to agree with this line of thought, and thinking
>>>>>> that it
>>>>>> might be good if Mini: is limited to a very small size, few
>>>>>> sentences, and can add a "see more" which links to a regular
>>>>>> article on the topic. We can set it up so that the Mini's are
>>>>>> only viewed, created, and edited in the search result page
>>>>>> directly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am I at odds with current thoughts on this, or does it sound
>>>>>> reasonable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at
>>>>>>>> Forum:Main
>>>>>>>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a
>>>>>>>> policy page
>>>>>>>> at search:Main namespace
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fred Bauder
>>>>>>> Here's a suggested treatment I kind of like:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. As an alternative to maintaining separate articles, the
>>>>>> "mini"
>>>>>>> content could be maintained as a part of a larger article, for
>>>>>> example
>>>>>>> in the form of a formal "Summary" section. That section would
>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>> be extracted on the fly. Would this work?
>>>>>>> 2. You have put the big, "encyclopedic" disambiguation
>>>>>>> article
>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>> main space, and the "dictionary" article (which also provides
>>>>>>> some disambiguation, which is good) in the Mini space. To keep
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bulk of
>>>>>>> links and articles simple, I would prefer to do it the other way
>>>>>>> around: Put the small, "mini" article in the main space and the
>>>>>> large,
>>>>>>> detailed one in a different namespace, such as "dis
>>>>>>> [ambiguation]" or
>>>>>>> "extended". Or give it an extension, as in "innocence/
>>>>>> disambiguation"
>>>>>>> or "innocence (disambiguation)".
>>>>>>> My guess is that there will always be many more small
>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> large ones. Keeping the bulk of the articles in the main space
>>>>>>> will make linking simpler. Notice all those "create" and "edit"
>>>>>>> links in parentheses behind the "search query" (keyword?) links.
>>>>>>> Currently, they all point to Mini. Most links will intend to
>>>>>>> refer to the small
>>>>>>> articles. The namespace prefix would vanish, simplifying the
>>>>>>> links.
>>>>>>> --RainerBlome 00:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps the extended articles could use the Search namespace and
>>>>>>> we could
>>>>>>> put policy in some other namespace such as policy.
>>>>>> If interacting with Mini: is abstracted/hidden through the search
>>>>>> result page, I think it would be best to keep it the way it is, so
>>>>>> the regular articles are in the regular namespace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One *very* long term thinking is that others could mimic the
>>>>>> "Mini:" namespace on their own wiki's, and a crawler can build a
>>>>>> database of mini articles from any wiki on the web.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>>>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>>>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> SearchWiki mailing list
>>>>> SearchWiki at wikia.com
>>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> End of SearchWiki Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Prof. Dr. Jean-Pol Martin
>>>> Didaktik der franz?sischen
>>>> Sprache und Literatur
>>>> Universit?t, Zi. 240
>>>> 85071 Eichst?tt
>>>> Tel. (08421) 93-1536
>>>> Fax: (08421) 93-1797
>>>> http://projektkompetenz.de/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:06:27 +0000
>>> From: "Mark (Markie)" <newsmarkie at googlemail.com>
>>> Subject: [Search wiki] Input wanted on Mini and main name spaces for
>>> Search Wikia
>>> To: "Mailing list for Search Wikia" <search-l at wikia.com>, "Search
>>> Wiki" <searchwiki at wikia.com>, "Jimmy Wales" <jwales at wikia.com>, jer
>>> <jeremie at jabber.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <a6424d870802010706t3da4f35dk85bbb4001f3ecbd4 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Right im being bold here, so sorry if anyone has problems with this.
>>>
>>> Currently there is not really any definite policy on what is
>>> acceptable in, and what should not be in mini: articles for Search
>>> Wikia. This means that as an admin on the wiki I, and other admins,
>>> have difficulty in deciding what should be allowed to stay and what
>>> should be in the articles. It also means trouble for people who are
>>> trying to contribute as there isn't really a list of what should and
>>> shouldn't be in the mini articles.
>>>
>>> So I'm suggesting the following to try and get this sorted. Go to
>>> this page :-
>>> *http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:Mini_article/Policy_discussion*<http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:Mini_article/Policy_discussion>
>>>
>>> This page is to be used for the posting and discussion of ideas for
>>> the policy on Mini: articles, Search:Mini
>>> article<http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:Mini_article>,
>>> and what they should contain. As the main name space, (the namespace
>>> with no prefix) is an alternative location for content, the question
>>> of what the main name space is to be used for is also under
>>> consideration, see Search:Main namespace
>>> <http://search.wikia.com/wiki/search:Main_namespace> for one
>>> alternative use. Please post ideas below and then these will be
>>> discussed until *February 8, 2008*. From then until *February 15,
>>> 2008* various versions of the policy will be drawn up.
>>>
>>> More details are on the wiki page, please check there. Please add
>>> your inputs.
>>>
>>> Thanks all and hope i haven't upset anyone.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> Mark
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL:
>>> http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/searchwiki/attachments/20080201/e9760fea/attachment-0001.html
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 10:00:58 +0530
>>> From: Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Forum:Main Namespace
>>> To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
>>> Message-ID: <47A3F202.8040000 at wikia.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> I tend to side with Angela in this little mini-debate about
>>> mini-articles. :) While the mini-articles should be thought of as
>>> being primarily a part of a broader search-result page, they
>>> probably can and will be linked to by others, and that's almost
>>> certainly ok.
>>>
>>> jer wrote:
>>>>> If the mini-articles contain quality information, people will link
>>>>> to them from elsewhere. I think these pages have the potential to
>>>>> be useful in many more contexts than just Wikia Search.
>>>> That raises an interesting question, should they even be accessible
>>>> outside of the search result screen? What if you can only view a
>>>> mini-article in it's native environment, in a search result?
>>>>
>>>> We're all still learning exactly what they are of course, so my
>>>> $0.02 is that their very definition is being part of a search
>>>> result and any other uses may be diluting their value as that.
>>>>
>>>>> The mini-article on Visvo is the 3rd hit in... that other search
>>>>> engine and I expect a lot of people will come across mini-articles
>>>>> that way. http://www.google.com/search?q=Visvo
>>>> Even still, http://mini.search.wikia.com vs. http://search.wikia.com
>>>> seems pretty insignificant a difference there?
>>>>
>>>> Jer
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Search wiki mailing list
>>>> http://search.wikia.com/
>>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SearchWiki mailing list
>>> SearchWiki at wikia.com
>>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>>
>>>
>>> End of SearchWiki Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1
>>> ****************************************
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Jean-Pol Martin
> Didaktik der französischen
> Sprache und Literatur
> Universität, Zi. 240
> 85071 Eichstätt
> Tel. (08421) 93-1536
> Fax: (08421) 93-1797
> http://projektkompetenz.de/
> _______________________________________________
> Search wiki mailing list
> http://search.wikia.com/
> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
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