[Search wiki] SearchWiki Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
Jean-Pol Martin
jpm at ldl.de
Sat Jan 26 06:17:58 UTC 2008
My students are very motivated to write Miniarticles. And this
motivation ist important if we want to educate young people creating
knowledge together worldwide. But if the miniarticle don't appear in
searchengines like google, I'm afraid that they will not work furter on
this project. Please, give the miniarticle free for google...
Jeanpol
searchwiki-request at wikia.com schrieb:
> Send SearchWiki mailing list submissions to
> searchwiki at wikia.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> searchwiki-request at wikia.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> searchwiki-owner at wikia.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of SearchWiki digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Scale of Search wiki (jer)
> 2. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (jer)
> 3. Re: Mini Articles and Use of the Main Namespace (jer)
> 4. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (Mark (Markie))
> 5. Re: Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace (jer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:50:02 -0600
> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Scale of Search wiki
> To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
> Message-ID: <59781F84-17EA-4650-87E8-E13A4995A30D at jabber.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>> ... [A lot of great commentary and feedback] ...
>>
>> Some day, "search query" wikis such as the Wikia Search one will
>> densely cover the fat middle. To me, the question is not if, but
>> when, how many, and which ones. The race is on.
>
> Although it's not present on the footers of the wiki yet (was lost w/
> the new skin apparently), the mini articles are all under an open
> content license: http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_copyrights.
>
> Jer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:49:09 -0600
> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace
> To: fredbaud at fairpoint.net, Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
> Message-ID: <199B81D5-89FF-4EF1-9847-3206408C35D4 at jabber.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini
>>> articles are
>>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>> internal
>>> linking more straightforward.
>
> My inclination is to make almost all views of a mini article be in-
> context, that you only see them in their search result. What reasons
> are there to view them outside of that context?
>
>>> There is also the question of what the
>>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief
>>> articles
>>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article.
>
> If these are short as in a sentence or two I could see this, but when
> they grow to be a body of "real" content, the actual answers to the
> search term, I worry that it's becoming an answer service and not
> something that compliments one of the core functions of a search
> result, to direct people somewhere.
>
>>> Another is
>>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term.
>
> Disambig, as well as poorly formed queries, misspellings (that the
> currently non-existant did-you-mean feature might not cover), and
> "hot" or fresh searches (like news, memes, so on) that are always
> harder with algorithmic approaches.
>
> What about the usage of mini articles for straight up "this is the
> best link and isn't in the search result!" ? Shouldn't we support
> this and use that data to index and improve the rankings? Is it a
> problem to support that usage?
>
>>> Either
>>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the mini
>>> namespace is used in one of those ways, the question remains of
>>> what the
>>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the search
>>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you are
>>> confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in front
>>> of it
>>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>>
>>> As an alternative, I suggest that we continue with the mini
>>> articles as
>>> a brief introduction to the subject and reserve the main namespace
>>> for
>>> an intensive disambiguation of its subject, including suggestions
>>> regarding how to use appropriate keywords to refine searches to
>>> get good
>>> results for various possibilities. Whether our projected user base
>>> would
>>> actively use and develop such pages remains to be seen, although I
>>> find
>>> it enjoyable.
>
> I'm starting to agree with this line of thought, and thinking that it
> might be good if Mini: is limited to a very small size, few
> sentences, and can add a "see more" which links to a regular article
> on the topic. We can set it up so that the Mini's are only viewed,
> created, and edited in the search result page directly.
>
> Am I at odds with current thoughts on this, or does it sound reasonable?
>
>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at Forum:Main
>>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a policy
>>> page
>>> at search:Main namespace
>>>
>>> Fred Bauder
>> Here's a suggested treatment I kind of like:
>>
>> 1. As an alternative to maintaining separate articles, the "mini"
>> content could be maintained as a part of a larger article, for example
>> in the form of a formal "Summary" section. That section would need to
>> be extracted on the fly. Would this work?
>> 2. You have put the big, "encyclopedic" disambiguation article
>> in the
>> main space, and the "dictionary" article (which also provides some
>> disambiguation, which is good) in the Mini space. To keep the bulk of
>> links and articles simple, I would prefer to do it the other way
>> around: Put the small, "mini" article in the main space and the large,
>> detailed one in a different namespace, such as "dis[ambiguation]" or
>> "extended". Or give it an extension, as in "innocence/disambiguation"
>> or "innocence (disambiguation)".
>> My guess is that there will always be many more small articles
>> than
>> large ones. Keeping the bulk of the articles in the main space will
>> make linking simpler. Notice all those "create" and "edit" links in
>> parentheses behind the "search query" (keyword?) links. Currently,
>> they all point to Mini. Most links will intend to refer to the small
>> articles. The namespace prefix would vanish, simplifying the links.
>> --RainerBlome 00:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
>>
>> Perhaps the extended articles could use the Search namespace and we
>> could
>> put policy in some other namespace such as policy.
>
> If interacting with Mini: is abstracted/hidden through the search
> result page, I think it would be best to keep it the way it is, so
> the regular articles are in the regular namespace.
>
> One *very* long term thinking is that others could mimic the "Mini:"
> namespace on their own wiki's, and a crawler can build a database of
> mini articles from any wiki on the web.
>
> Jer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:50:45 -0600
> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Articles and Use of the Main Namespace
> To: fredbaud at fairpoint.net, Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
> Message-ID: <496F37F0-515B-4E91-8690-8BA6B6EB7913 at jabber.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>>> Why don't we keep this discussion on
>>> http://search.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Main_Namespace ? Regarding the
>>> distinction between "mini" and "maxi" content, I sort of replied
>>> there.
>> Because I was asked to post the issue here, which make sense as
>> conversation about fundamental policies affecting the structure of the
>> site needs to be where as many folks as possible can see it and
>> participate.
>
> That was me that asked, I've honestly not had enough attention to
> additionally cover/track the forums on the wiki :(
>
> Jer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:59:54 +0000
> From: "Mark (Markie)" <newsmarkie at googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace
> To: "Search Wiki" <searchwiki at wikia.com>
> Message-ID:
> <a6424d870801251459h7ccd3d6ah5b9de175456ed90c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> hmm what would be peoples thought of using wp content in the main space,
> which could either be local copies or dynamically called, with local
> overwrite possible, so that we can have minis with "more here" which then
> links to pages which have either been specially adapted written locally or
> then just falls back onto wp (or should be just have a kinda "if local
> exists then use that, if not link directly to wp" thing)
>
> thoughts
>
> mark
>
> On Jan 25, 2008 10:49 PM, jer <jeremie at jabber.org> wrote:
>
>>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini
>>>> articles are
>>>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>>> internal
>>>> linking more straightforward.
>> My inclination is to make almost all views of a mini article be in-
>> context, that you only see them in their search result. What reasons
>> are there to view them outside of that context?
>>
>>>> There is also the question of what the
>>>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief
>>>> articles
>>>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article.
>> If these are short as in a sentence or two I could see this, but when
>> they grow to be a body of "real" content, the actual answers to the
>> search term, I worry that it's becoming an answer service and not
>> something that compliments one of the core functions of a search
>> result, to direct people somewhere.
>>
>>>> Another is
>>>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term.
>> Disambig, as well as poorly formed queries, misspellings (that the
>> currently non-existant did-you-mean feature might not cover), and
>> "hot" or fresh searches (like news, memes, so on) that are always
>> harder with algorithmic approaches.
>>
>> What about the usage of mini articles for straight up "this is the
>> best link and isn't in the search result!" ? Shouldn't we support
>> this and use that data to index and improve the rankings? Is it a
>> problem to support that usage?
>>
>>>> Either
>>>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the mini
>>>> namespace is used in one of those ways, the question remains of
>>>> what the
>>>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the search
>>>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you are
>>>> confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in front
>>>> of it
>>>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>>>
>>>> As an alternative, I suggest that we continue with the mini
>>>> articles as
>>>> a brief introduction to the subject and reserve the main namespace
>>>> for
>>>> an intensive disambiguation of its subject, including suggestions
>>>> regarding how to use appropriate keywords to refine searches to
>>>> get good
>>>> results for various possibilities. Whether our projected user base
>>>> would
>>>> actively use and develop such pages remains to be seen, although I
>>>> find
>>>> it enjoyable.
>> I'm starting to agree with this line of thought, and thinking that it
>> might be good if Mini: is limited to a very small size, few
>> sentences, and can add a "see more" which links to a regular article
>> on the topic. We can set it up so that the Mini's are only viewed,
>> created, and edited in the search result page directly.
>>
>> Am I at odds with current thoughts on this, or does it sound reasonable?
>>
>>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at Forum:Main
>>>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a policy
>>>> page
>>>> at search:Main namespace
>>>>
>>>> Fred Bauder
>>> Here's a suggested treatment I kind of like:
>>>
>>> 1. As an alternative to maintaining separate articles, the "mini"
>>> content could be maintained as a part of a larger article, for example
>>> in the form of a formal "Summary" section. That section would need to
>>> be extracted on the fly. Would this work?
>>> 2. You have put the big, "encyclopedic" disambiguation article
>>> in the
>>> main space, and the "dictionary" article (which also provides some
>>> disambiguation, which is good) in the Mini space. To keep the bulk of
>>> links and articles simple, I would prefer to do it the other way
>>> around: Put the small, "mini" article in the main space and the large,
>>> detailed one in a different namespace, such as "dis[ambiguation]" or
>>> "extended". Or give it an extension, as in "innocence/disambiguation"
>>> or "innocence (disambiguation)".
>>> My guess is that there will always be many more small articles
>>> than
>>> large ones. Keeping the bulk of the articles in the main space will
>>> make linking simpler. Notice all those "create" and "edit" links in
>>> parentheses behind the "search query" (keyword?) links. Currently,
>>> they all point to Mini. Most links will intend to refer to the small
>>> articles. The namespace prefix would vanish, simplifying the links.
>>> --RainerBlome 00:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
>>>
>>> Perhaps the extended articles could use the Search namespace and we
>>> could
>>> put policy in some other namespace such as policy.
>> If interacting with Mini: is abstracted/hidden through the search
>> result page, I think it would be best to keep it the way it is, so
>> the regular articles are in the regular namespace.
>>
>> One *very* long term thinking is that others could mimic the "Mini:"
>> namespace on their own wiki's, and a crawler can build a database of
>> mini articles from any wiki on the web.
>>
>> Jer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Search wiki mailing list
>> http://search.wikia.com/
>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/searchwiki/attachments/20080125/dd1e081e/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:14:45 -0600
> From: jer <jeremie at jabber.org>
> Subject: Re: [Search wiki] Mini Aricles and Use of the Main Namespace
> To: Search Wiki <searchwiki at wikia.com>
> Message-ID: <2806B96B-085F-4563-AED5-EA8C95AE9F41 at jabber.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Once we have wikipedia crawled/imported, it's flagged as a whitelist
> so WP results should show up at the top of any search as the first
> hit, for close or exact matching keywords.
>
> I could see integrating closely with WP's disambig pages, but the
> bulk of the content should just be a normal search result, no need to
> special case it is there?
>
> Jer
>
> On Jan 25, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Mark (Markie) wrote:
>
>> hmm what would be peoples thought of using wp content in the main
>> space, which could either be local copies or dynamically called,
>> with local overwrite possible, so that we can have minis with "more
>> here" which then links to pages which have either been specially
>> adapted written locally or then just falls back onto wp (or should
>> be just have a kinda "if local exists then use that, if not link
>> directly to wp" thing)
>>
>> thoughts
>>
>> mark
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2008 10:49 PM, jer <jeremie at jabber.org> wrote:
>>>> As has been noted, links within mini articles to other mini
>>>> articles are
>>>> awkward. Using the main namespace for mini articles would make
>>>> internal
>>>> linking more straightforward.
>> My inclination is to make almost all views of a mini article be in-
>> context, that you only see them in their search result. What reasons
>> are there to view them outside of that context?
>>
>>>> There is also the question of what the
>>>> content of mini articles ought to be. One possibility is brief
>>>> articles
>>>> about the word or term, a sort of mini Wikipedia article.
>> If these are short as in a sentence or two I could see this, but when
>> they grow to be a body of "real" content, the actual answers to the
>> search term, I worry that it's becoming an answer service and not
>> something that compliments one of the core functions of a search
>> result, to direct people somewhere.
>>
>>>> Another is
>>>> adding significant material about disambiguation of the term.
>> Disambig, as well as poorly formed queries, misspellings (that the
>> currently non-existant did-you-mean feature might not cover), and
>> "hot" or fresh searches (like news, memes, so on) that are always
>> harder with algorithmic approaches.
>>
>> What about the usage of mini articles for straight up "this is the
>> best link and isn't in the search result!" ? Shouldn't we support
>> this and use that data to index and improve the rankings? Is it a
>> problem to support that usage?
>>
>>>> Either
>>>> alternative could occur in the mini or main namespace. If the mini
>>>> namespace is used in one of those ways, the question remains of
>>>> what the
>>>> main namespace is is used for. I have tentatively assumed the
>> search
>>>> namespace is for policy, the help namespace is for help. If you are
>>>> confused, the main namespace is an article with nothing in front
>>>> of it
>>>> ([[Apple]] rather than [[Mini:Apple]]).
>>>>
>>>> As an alternative, I suggest that we continue with the mini
>>>> articles as
>>>> a brief introduction to the subject and reserve the main namespace
>>>> for
>>>> an intensive disambiguation of its subject, including suggestions
>>>> regarding how to use appropriate keywords to refine searches to
>>>> get good
>>>> results for various possibilities. Whether our projected user base
>>>> would
>>>> actively use and develop such pages remains to be seen, although I
>>>> find
>>>> it enjoyable.
>> I'm starting to agree with this line of thought, and thinking that it
>> might be good if Mini: is limited to a very small size, few
>> sentences, and can add a "see more" which links to a regular article
>> on the topic. We can set it up so that the Mini's are only viewed,
>> created, and edited in the search result page directly.
>>
>> Am I at odds with current thoughts on this, or does it sound
>> reasonable?
>>
>>>> There are some discussions at Forum:Mini articles and at Forum:Main
>>>> Namespace I have been so bold as to provisionally advance a policy
>>>> page
>>>> at search:Main namespace
>>>>
>>>> Fred Bauder
>>> Here's a suggested treatment I kind of like:
>>>
>>> 1. As an alternative to maintaining separate articles, the
>> "mini"
>>> content could be maintained as a part of a larger article, for
>> example
>>> in the form of a formal "Summary" section. That section would
>> need to
>>> be extracted on the fly. Would this work?
>>> 2. You have put the big, "encyclopedic" disambiguation article
>>> in the
>>> main space, and the "dictionary" article (which also provides some
>>> disambiguation, which is good) in the Mini space. To keep the
>> bulk of
>>> links and articles simple, I would prefer to do it the other way
>>> around: Put the small, "mini" article in the main space and the
>> large,
>>> detailed one in a different namespace, such as "dis[ambiguation]" or
>>> "extended". Or give it an extension, as in "innocence/
>> disambiguation"
>>> or "innocence (disambiguation)".
>>> My guess is that there will always be many more small articles
>>> than
>>> large ones. Keeping the bulk of the articles in the main space will
>>> make linking simpler. Notice all those "create" and "edit" links in
>>> parentheses behind the "search query" (keyword?) links. Currently,
>>> they all point to Mini. Most links will intend to refer to the small
>>> articles. The namespace prefix would vanish, simplifying the links.
>>> --RainerBlome 00:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
>>>
>>> Perhaps the extended articles could use the Search namespace and we
>>> could
>>> put policy in some other namespace such as policy.
>> If interacting with Mini: is abstracted/hidden through the search
>> result page, I think it would be best to keep it the way it is, so
>> the regular articles are in the regular namespace.
>>
>> One *very* long term thinking is that others could mimic the "Mini:"
>> namespace on their own wiki's, and a crawler can build a database of
>> mini articles from any wiki on the web.
>>
>> Jer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Search wiki mailing list
>> http://search.wikia.com/
>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Search wiki mailing list
>> http://search.wikia.com/
>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> SearchWiki mailing list
> SearchWiki at wikia.com
> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/searchwiki
>
>
> End of SearchWiki Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
> ****************************************
>
--
Prof. Dr. Jean-Pol Martin
Didaktik der französischen
Sprache und Literatur
Universität, Zi. 240
85071 Eichstätt
Tel. (08421) 93-1536
Fax: (08421) 93-1797
http://projektkompetenz.de/
More information about the SearchWiki
mailing list