From beesley at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 04:48:42 2008 From: beesley at gmail.com (Angela) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 14:48:42 +1000 Subject: [Wikia-l] New wikis this week Message-ID: <8b722b800806012148y16deb6d0j576283db4e87086d@mail.gmail.com> Here's a list of 132 wikis made last week, including our first wiki in the Ripuarian dialect. You can also find a sortable list at http://www.wikia.com/wiki/New_wikis_this_week If there's a topic you're interested in, please drop in and say "hi" to the new community. English - Books * Barry Trotter - http://barry-trotter.wikia.com * Berserk - http://berserk.wikia.com * Lewis Carroll - http://lewiscarroll.wikia.com * Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants - http://travelingpants.wikia.com * Watership Down - http://watershipdown.wikia.com English -Education * Coping With School - http://copingwithschool.wikia.com * Death Row - http://deathrow.wikia.com * Hoosier Librarians - http://hoosierlibrarians.wikia.com * Literature Notes - http://notes.wikia.com * Media.syndicate - http://mediasyndicate.wikia.com * Open Project - http://openproject.wikia.com * Technology and Writing Studies - http://tws.wikia.com English - Entertainment * Alpha Championship Wrestling - http://acw.wikia.com * Bonanza - http://bonanza.wikia.com * Brady Bunch - http://thebradybunch.wikia.com * Chucky - http://chucky.wikia.com * Dirty Pair - http://dirtypair.wikia.com * Eiken - http://eiken.wikia.com * In the Night Garden - http://inthenightgarden.wikia.com * Jimmy Neutron - http://jimmyneutron.wikia.com * Joseph McManners - http://josephmcmanners.wikia.com * Magic Powers - http://magicpowers.wikia.com * Memory Gamma - http://memory-gamma.wikia.com * Monster Comics - http://monstercomics.wikia.com * Shameless - http://shameless.wikia.com * Tekdiff - http://tekdiff.wikia.com * The Amory Wars - http://amorywars.wikia.com * The Apprentice - http://theapprentice.wikia.com English - Gaming * Build Your Empire - http://buildyourempire.wikia.com * Champions of Norrath - http://norrath.wikia.com * ClubTropica - http://clubtropica.wikia.com * Contra - http://contra.wikia.com * CrazyBob's Cops and Robbers - http://crazybobs.wikia.com * Elona - http://elona.wikia.com * Farstriders - http://farstriders.wikia.com * Fate - http://fate.wikia.com * Guild Wars Guilds - http://guildwarsguilds.wikia.com * House of the Dead - http://houseofthedead.wikia.com * LucasArts - http://lucasarts.wikia.com * Mabinogi - http://mabinogi.wikia.com * McLeodGaming - http://mcleodgaming.wikia.com * Onimusha - http://onimusha.wikia.com * Pocket Tanks - http://pocket-tanks.wikia.com * Pool of Radiance - http://poolofradiance.wikia.com * Post Nuke - http://postnuke.wikia.com * Rhodeva - http://rhodeva.wikia.com * Saga Edition - http://sagaedition.wikia.com * Sarcastic Gamer - http://sarcasticgamer.wikia.com * Solder Front - http://soldierfront.wikia.com * Star Fleet Universe - http://starfleetuniverse.wikia.com * Tank Mania - http://tankmania.wikia.com * The Star Wars RPG - http://swrpg.wikia.com * True Galaxies - http://truegalaxies.wikia.com * Twilight 2000 - http://twilight2000.wikia.com * Virtual Family Kingdom - http://vfk.wikia.com * Warrior Nation Clan - http://warriornation.wikia.com English - Hobbies * Basketweaving - http://basketweaving.wikia.com * Lolita Fashion - http://lolipedia.wikia.com * Sports Memorabilia - http://sportsmemorabilia.wikia.com * Tools - http://tools.wikia.com English - Music * Britney Spears - http://britneyspears.wikia.com * From First To Last - http://fromfirsttolast.wikia.com * Ilaiyaraaja - http://ilaiyaraaja.wikia.com * Meet the Parodies - http://meettheparodies.wikia.com * Michael Nesmith - http://mikenesmith.wikia.com * Ocarina - http://ocarina.wikia.com * Queens Of The Stone Age - http://qotsa.wikia.com * The Carpenters - http://thecarpenters.wikia.com English - Science and Nature * Flow Cytometry Resource - http://flowcytometry.wikia.com * Insects - http://insect.wikia.com * Small Animal Care - http://pocketpets.wikia.com * Walking With... - http://walkingwith.wikia.com English - Technology * Ace OS - http://aceos.wikia.com * ATT Data Device - http://ans.wikia.com * Drawball - http://drawball.wikia.com * Faviki - http://faviki.wikia.com * Interface Design Tenets - http://interfacedesigntenets.wikia.com * Pennsylvania - http://pennsylvania.wikia.com * Personal Information Management - http://nysinfo.wikia.com * Speaker Plans - http://speakerplans.wikia.com English - Other * Busch Theme Parks - http://buschparks.wikia.com * Coney Island - http://coneyisland.wikia.com * Dragonball Fanon - http://dragonballfanon.wikia.com (fanon) * Insignificant Things - http://insignificantthings.wikia.com (personal experiences) * Liberapedia - http://liberapedia.wikia.com (parody) * Lyme Disease - http://lyme.wikia.com (health) * Mar Roxas - http://marroxas2010.wikia.com (politics) * Soapbox Arcade - http://soapboxarcade.wikia.com (art) * Texas Soccer History - http://texassoccerhistory.wikia.com Croatian / Hrvatski * Upravljanje podacima - http://upravljanjepodacima.wikia.com (Technology) Esperanto / Esperanto * Bonlingva vortaro - http://eo.vortaro.wikia.com (Education) French / Fran?ais * Famous People - http://fr.famouspeople.wikia.com (Entertainment) German / Deutsch * YugiohDream - http://yugioh-dream.wikia.com (Hobbies) * Oblivion - http://de.oblivion.wikia.com (Gaming) * Convergence - http://convergence.wikia.com (Philosophy and Religion) * VSN - http://vsn.wikia.com (Books) * Nova Norway - http://de.novanorway.wikia.com (Gaming) * MR Security - http://mr-security.wikia.com (Technology) * MTV und Comedy Central - http://de.mtv.wikia.com (Entertainment) * Kuddly - http://kuddly.wikia.com (Hobbies) Italian / Italiano * Italian DJs - http://it.italiandj.wikia.com (Music) * Giocando con la Gravit? - http://it.giocandoconlagravita.wikia.com (Education) Japanese / ??? * Golgo 13 - http://ja.golgo13.wikia.com (Entertainment) Norwegian / Norsk (bokm?l) * Home and Away - http://no.homeandaway.wikia.com (Entertainment) * Vokteren - http://no.vokteren.wikia.com (Books) * Elder Scrolls - http://no.elderscrolls.wikia.com (Gaming) Persian / ????? * Education - http://ostad.wikia.com (Education) Polish / Polski * Wielkapedia - http://wielkapedia.wikia.com (Creative) * Churches - http://polskiekoscioly.wikia.com (Travel) * Freev - http://pl.freev.wikia.com (Technology) * 3RP dla opornych - http://pl.3rp.wikia.com (Politics and Activism) Portuguese / Portugu?s * Marvel Database - http://pt.marveldatabase.wikia.com (Entertainment) * Gran Turismo - http://pt.granturismo.wikia.com (Gaming) * Technical drawing - http://desenhotecnico.wikia.com (Education) * Love - http://pt.amor.wikia.com (Philosophy and Religion) * Metroid - http://pt.metroid.wikia.com (Gaming) * Formula 1 - http://pt-br.f1.wikia.com (Sports) Ripuarian / Ripoarisch * Fictional wiki towns - http://ksh.nation.wikia.com (Creative) Romanian / Rom?n? * Beyonce - http://ro.beyonce.wikia.com (Music) Russian / ??????? * The Movies - http://ru.themovies.wikia.com (Entertainment) * Imperial-2008 - http://ru.imperial.wikia.com (Gaming) * Computer Era Magazine - http://computerra.wikia.com (Technology) * Old Games Database - http://ru.oldgamesbase.wikia.com (Gaming) * Star Wars Creative - http://swcreative.wikia.com (Fan fiction) Serbocroatian / Srpskohrvatski / ?????????????? * Fictional wiki towns - http://sh.wikination.wikia.com (Creative) Spanish / Espa?ol * World Wrestling Virtual Entertainment - http://es.wwve.wikia.com (Gaming) * A Song of Ice and Fire - http://hieloyfuego.wikia.com (Books) * Puerto Rico - http://es.puertorico.wikia.com (Travel) * HP Mini-Note PC - http://es.mininote.wikia.com (Technology) * Consignas Politicas - http://consignas.wikia.com (Politics and Activism) * Defense of the Ancients - http://es.dota-cl.wikia.com (Gaming) Swedish / Svenska * Education - http://sv.education.wikia.com (Education) Angela From gil at wikia.com Mon Jun 2 17:46:02 2008 From: gil at wikia.com (Gil Penchina) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:46:02 -0700 Subject: [Wikia-l] [Wikiastaff-l] New wikis this week In-Reply-To: <8b722b800806012148y16deb6d0j576283db4e87086d@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b722b800806012148y16deb6d0j576283db4e87086d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <484431DA.2030908@wikia.com> Basketweaving is off to a flying start! As is sportsmemorabilia! Anyone with something to contribute should feel free to drop in and encourage their early success. Angela wrote: > Here's a list of 132 wikis made last week, including our first wiki in > the Ripuarian dialect. > > You can also find a sortable list at > http://www.wikia.com/wiki/New_wikis_this_week > > If there's a topic you're interested in, please drop in and say "hi" > to the new community. > > English - Books > * Barry Trotter - http://barry-trotter.wikia.com > * Berserk - http://berserk.wikia.com > * Lewis Carroll - http://lewiscarroll.wikia.com > * Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants - http://travelingpants.wikia.com > * Watership Down - http://watershipdown.wikia.com > > English -Education > * Coping With School - http://copingwithschool.wikia.com > * Death Row - http://deathrow.wikia.com > * Hoosier Librarians - http://hoosierlibrarians.wikia.com > * Literature Notes - http://notes.wikia.com > * Media.syndicate - http://mediasyndicate.wikia.com > * Open Project - http://openproject.wikia.com > * Technology and Writing Studies - http://tws.wikia.com > > English - Entertainment > * Alpha Championship Wrestling - http://acw.wikia.com > * Bonanza - http://bonanza.wikia.com > * Brady Bunch - http://thebradybunch.wikia.com > * Chucky - http://chucky.wikia.com > * Dirty Pair - http://dirtypair.wikia.com > * Eiken - http://eiken.wikia.com > * In the Night Garden - http://inthenightgarden.wikia.com > * Jimmy Neutron - http://jimmyneutron.wikia.com > * Joseph McManners - http://josephmcmanners.wikia.com > * Magic Powers - http://magicpowers.wikia.com > * Memory Gamma - http://memory-gamma.wikia.com > * Monster Comics - http://monstercomics.wikia.com > * Shameless - http://shameless.wikia.com > * Tekdiff - http://tekdiff.wikia.com > * The Amory Wars - http://amorywars.wikia.com > * The Apprentice - http://theapprentice.wikia.com > > English - Gaming > * Build Your Empire - http://buildyourempire.wikia.com > * Champions of Norrath - http://norrath.wikia.com > * ClubTropica - http://clubtropica.wikia.com > * Contra - http://contra.wikia.com > * CrazyBob's Cops and Robbers - http://crazybobs.wikia.com > * Elona - http://elona.wikia.com > * Farstriders - http://farstriders.wikia.com > * Fate - http://fate.wikia.com > * Guild Wars Guilds - http://guildwarsguilds.wikia.com > * House of the Dead - http://houseofthedead.wikia.com > * LucasArts - http://lucasarts.wikia.com > * Mabinogi - http://mabinogi.wikia.com > * McLeodGaming - http://mcleodgaming.wikia.com > * Onimusha - http://onimusha.wikia.com > * Pocket Tanks - http://pocket-tanks.wikia.com > * Pool of Radiance - http://poolofradiance.wikia.com > * Post Nuke - http://postnuke.wikia.com > * Rhodeva - http://rhodeva.wikia.com > * Saga Edition - http://sagaedition.wikia.com > * Sarcastic Gamer - http://sarcasticgamer.wikia.com > * Solder Front - http://soldierfront.wikia.com > * Star Fleet Universe - http://starfleetuniverse.wikia.com > * Tank Mania - http://tankmania.wikia.com > * The Star Wars RPG - http://swrpg.wikia.com > * True Galaxies - http://truegalaxies.wikia.com > * Twilight 2000 - http://twilight2000.wikia.com > * Virtual Family Kingdom - http://vfk.wikia.com > * Warrior Nation Clan - http://warriornation.wikia.com > > English - Hobbies > * Basketweaving - http://basketweaving.wikia.com > * Lolita Fashion - http://lolipedia.wikia.com > * Sports Memorabilia - http://sportsmemorabilia.wikia.com > * Tools - http://tools.wikia.com > > English - Music > * Britney Spears - http://britneyspears.wikia.com > * From First To Last - http://fromfirsttolast.wikia.com > * Ilaiyaraaja - http://ilaiyaraaja.wikia.com > * Meet the Parodies - http://meettheparodies.wikia.com > * Michael Nesmith - http://mikenesmith.wikia.com > * Ocarina - http://ocarina.wikia.com > * Queens Of The Stone Age - http://qotsa.wikia.com > * The Carpenters - http://thecarpenters.wikia.com > > English - Science and Nature > * Flow Cytometry Resource - http://flowcytometry.wikia.com > * Insects - http://insect.wikia.com > * Small Animal Care - http://pocketpets.wikia.com > * Walking With... - http://walkingwith.wikia.com > > English - Technology > * Ace OS - http://aceos.wikia.com > * ATT Data Device - http://ans.wikia.com > * Drawball - http://drawball.wikia.com > * Faviki - http://faviki.wikia.com > * Interface Design Tenets - http://interfacedesigntenets.wikia.com > * Pennsylvania - http://pennsylvania.wikia.com > * Personal Information Management - http://nysinfo.wikia.com > * Speaker Plans - http://speakerplans.wikia.com > > English - Other > * Busch Theme Parks - http://buschparks.wikia.com > * Coney Island - http://coneyisland.wikia.com > * Dragonball Fanon - http://dragonballfanon.wikia.com (fanon) > * Insignificant Things - http://insignificantthings.wikia.com > (personal experiences) > * Liberapedia - http://liberapedia.wikia.com (parody) > * Lyme Disease - http://lyme.wikia.com (health) > * Mar Roxas - http://marroxas2010.wikia.com (politics) > * Soapbox Arcade - http://soapboxarcade.wikia.com (art) > * Texas Soccer History - http://texassoccerhistory.wikia.com > > Croatian / Hrvatski > * Upravljanje podacima - http://upravljanjepodacima.wikia.com (Technology) > > Esperanto / Esperanto > * Bonlingva vortaro - http://eo.vortaro.wikia.com (Education) > > French / Fran?ais > * Famous People - http://fr.famouspeople.wikia.com (Entertainment) > > German / Deutsch > * YugiohDream - http://yugioh-dream.wikia.com (Hobbies) > * Oblivion - http://de.oblivion.wikia.com (Gaming) > * Convergence - http://convergence.wikia.com (Philosophy and Religion) > * VSN - http://vsn.wikia.com (Books) > * Nova Norway - http://de.novanorway.wikia.com (Gaming) > * MR Security - http://mr-security.wikia.com (Technology) > * MTV und Comedy Central - http://de.mtv.wikia.com (Entertainment) > * Kuddly - http://kuddly.wikia.com (Hobbies) > > Italian / Italiano > * Italian DJs - http://it.italiandj.wikia.com (Music) > * Giocando con la Gravit? - http://it.giocandoconlagravita.wikia.com (Education) > > Japanese / ??? > * Golgo 13 - http://ja.golgo13.wikia.com (Entertainment) > > Norwegian / Norsk (bokm?l) > * Home and Away - http://no.homeandaway.wikia.com (Entertainment) > * Vokteren - http://no.vokteren.wikia.com (Books) > * Elder Scrolls - http://no.elderscrolls.wikia.com (Gaming) > > Persian / ????? > * Education - http://ostad.wikia.com (Education) > > Polish / Polski > * Wielkapedia - http://wielkapedia.wikia.com (Creative) > * Churches - http://polskiekoscioly.wikia.com (Travel) > * Freev - http://pl.freev.wikia.com (Technology) > * 3RP dla opornych - http://pl.3rp.wikia.com (Politics and Activism) > > Portuguese / Portugu?s > * Marvel Database - http://pt.marveldatabase.wikia.com (Entertainment) > * Gran Turismo - http://pt.granturismo.wikia.com (Gaming) > * Technical drawing - http://desenhotecnico.wikia.com (Education) > * Love - http://pt.amor.wikia.com (Philosophy and Religion) > * Metroid - http://pt.metroid.wikia.com (Gaming) > * Formula 1 - http://pt-br.f1.wikia.com (Sports) > > Ripuarian / Ripoarisch > * Fictional wiki towns - http://ksh.nation.wikia.com (Creative) > > Romanian / Rom?n? > * Beyonce - http://ro.beyonce.wikia.com (Music) > > Russian / ??????? > * The Movies - http://ru.themovies.wikia.com (Entertainment) > * Imperial-2008 - http://ru.imperial.wikia.com (Gaming) > * Computer Era Magazine - http://computerra.wikia.com (Technology) > * Old Games Database - http://ru.oldgamesbase.wikia.com (Gaming) > * Star Wars Creative - http://swcreative.wikia.com (Fan fiction) > > Serbocroatian / Srpskohrvatski / ?????????????? > * Fictional wiki towns - http://sh.wikination.wikia.com (Creative) > > Spanish / Espa?ol > * World Wrestling Virtual Entertainment - http://es.wwve.wikia.com (Gaming) > * A Song of Ice and Fire - http://hieloyfuego.wikia.com (Books) > * Puerto Rico - http://es.puertorico.wikia.com (Travel) > * HP Mini-Note PC - http://es.mininote.wikia.com (Technology) > * Consignas Politicas - http://consignas.wikia.com (Politics and Activism) > * Defense of the Ancients - http://es.dota-cl.wikia.com (Gaming) > > Swedish / Svenska > * Education - http://sv.education.wikia.com (Education) > > Angela > _______________________________________________ > Wikiastaff-l mailing list > Wikiastaff-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikiastaff-l From kirkburn at googlemail.com Tue Jun 3 12:34:02 2008 From: kirkburn at googlemail.com (George Pribul) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:34:02 +0100 Subject: [Wikia-l] MediaWiki:Description In-Reply-To: <93ccdf1d0805210519n268b5c2as7623911fd4cdde0@mail.gmail.com> References: <48329CFD.9060701@wikia.com> <4832C99B.40708@wikia.com> <93ccdf1d0805210519n268b5c2as7623911fd4cdde0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <93ccdf1d0806030534n7ae9aafcm631186f551d2fae3@mail.gmail.com> I just knocked up a Wikia Help page on this using the info above - http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Description -Kirkburn 2008/5/21 George Pribul : > The character issue should be fixed in the code now, and I think should > also be live. > > I'm just glad I can finally change WoWWiki's Google's search result :) > > Kirkburn > > 2008/5/21 Victor : > > shuddup :) >> >> *mutters* >> >> >> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 3:28 AM, Bj?rnar wrote: >> >>> > Well I have just updated AoC Wiki's Description a little bit. Let's see >>> how >>> > it goes in a week or so. Although getting upwards of 30K pageviews >>> daily now >>> > don't think it matters as much :) >>> >>> On a sidenote, Victor hasn't learned the difference between pageviews >>> and visitors yet. That's visitors. >>> >>> -- >>> Bj?rnar >>> http://www.bjornars.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikia-l mailing list >>> Wikia-l at wikia.com >>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Victor ('Daworm') >> AoCWiki Sysop (http://aoc.wikia.com/) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikia-l mailing list >> Wikia-l at wikia.com >> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080603/895beeb0/attachment.html From gil at wikia.com Fri Jun 6 17:53:54 2008 From: gil at wikia.com (Gil Penchina) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:53:54 -0700 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style Message-ID: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> I have some important news. Wikia is making some changes to the way that our wikis look, and we'll see these changes rolling out site-wide over the next few weeks. Wikia has grown tremendously over the last few years. Since our launch in 2004, Wikia has grown from one shared server to more than 6,000 communities supported by 84 servers and a nine member community team offering help from around the world 24. Wikia is home to the most passionate communities on the internet and I'm always excited to see the amazing and beautiful sites that you're creating. Our goal is to enable you, our most important customers, to build the world's best resource on every topic. Wikia provides more than free hosting and bandwidth. We offer technical support, great new features and extensions, promotional opportunities and community support. Those services are provided free for all users, with costs paid by advertisers. However, the internet ad market is changing and we have to change to keep up. Our challenge is to offer an attractive package to our advertisers, while maintaining the best user experience possible for our readers and editors: * We have to standardize the way our site looks across all wikis, using the Monaco skin for anonymous users. In the past, communities have used various skins -- Monaco, Quartz or Monobook. That's a luxury that we can't afford to offer any more, as advertisers strongly prefer a consistent look-and-feel. * Based on your feedback, we're making some changes to Monaco that return it to more of a Monobook look and feel and moves the content higher on the page. * We're going to roll out a more flexible ad server that will let us vary the size, location and placement of ads. The changes will be rolled out site-wide over the next few weeks. There's a lot of information about what's coming up on this page: http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia's_New_Style . I'll hit the highlights here, and then you can read more about it on that page. The big changes will be: * Every wiki will use Monaco as the default skin but we will continue to offer choice for registered users who want to set their preferences * The edit bar and the content area will move up, replacing the area where the banner ad was. * Article pages will have ads in the content area. Logged-in users will only see one ad unit on article pages -- a 300x250 ad unit at the top right. (On pages where a 300x250 ad would disrupt a table, the ad will render as a banner ad) * The logo will return to the Monobook 135x155px Wiki.png image. * Main pages will be redesigned to accommodate a 300x250px ad unit. * Ads will be removed from many pages used by our most active users and will only appear on article pages, image pages, preview pages and category pages. Obviously, this will be a period of adjustment, especially for wikis that have been using Monobook. The community and content teams will be working with many communities over the next few weeks to help make the transition. I know that many people are attached to the Monobook skin, and I hope the new Monaco gives people more of the Monobook feel, with a number of advantages that make the wiki experience better. For example: * The Monaco skin is easier to customize to fit a particular community's look and feel. There are more opportunities to add color and images to the skin. * The page is now optimized, so the content loads faster. * Monaco is easier for new wiki users to understand. The majority of internet users still don't realize that there's an "edit" button on Wikipedia. That's because on Monobook, all the important links and buttons are written in 8.5-point type. Monaco is designed to make the important stuff stand out, like the edit button and the search box and we've seen increased usage of both. * When wikis have switched from Monobook to Monaco, they've seen huge jumps in the number of readers, contributors and user logins. As an example, Teletraan-I: The Transformers Wiki switched to Monaco in April. Comparing January (in Monobook) to May (in Monaco), the wiki's traffic jumped up 46%. Anonymous logins went up 223%, and use of the search box went up an amazing 541%. People clicked on items in the navigation flyout menus 38,000 times in May, and the number of active editors went up 51%, from 78 in January to 118 in May. Overall, we feel that the changes will improve the health and growth of the entire Wikia community by converting more viewers into contributors to make our communities more vibrant. At the same time, the changes will give us the resources to ensure that every wiki will be able to continue to count on Wikia for support and great service for years to come. Thank you for your continued support and for the amazing work that you do every day to build a great resource on every topic. User:Gil From gwalli at mac.com Fri Jun 6 19:23:51 2008 From: gwalli at mac.com (Gaylin Walli) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:23:51 -0400 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A9E891B-E514-4DAF-8F2D-8B37E68F3619@mac.com> I have to say that of all the changes, this is the on that distresses me the most. It means an entire revamp of the design of nearly all our article pages. I am, to put it mildly, incredibly angry and sad about this change. With incredible regrets, Kodia Tomekeeper Senior Admin, EQ2i On Jun 6, 2008, at 1:54 PM, wikia-l-request at wikia.com wrote: > Article pages will have ads in the content area. Logged-in users > will only see one ad unit on article pages -- a 300x250 ad unit at the > top right. (On pages where a 300x250 ad would disrupt a table, the ad > will render as a banner ad) From kirkburn at googlemail.com Fri Jun 6 19:39:13 2008 From: kirkburn at googlemail.com (George Pribul) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 20:39:13 +0100 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: <5A9E891B-E514-4DAF-8F2D-8B37E68F3619@mac.com> References: <5A9E891B-E514-4DAF-8F2D-8B37E68F3619@mac.com> Message-ID: <93ccdf1d0806061239w3cac8567m208d1f798c556d60@mail.gmail.com> Note that only the main page will have the fixed width design - all other pages will be full browser width as normal, with no requirements to change designs. Kirkburn / George Pribul WoWWiki admin, Wikia helper 2008/6/6 Gaylin Walli : > I have to say that of all the changes, this is the on that distresses > me the most. It means an entire revamp of the design of nearly all our > article pages. I am, to put it mildly, incredibly angry and sad about > this change. > > With incredible regrets, > > Kodia Tomekeeper > Senior Admin, EQ2i > > On Jun 6, 2008, at 1:54 PM, wikia-l-request at wikia.com wrote: > > > Article pages will have ads in the content area. Logged-in users > > will only see one ad unit on article pages -- a 300x250 ad unit at the > > top right. (On pages where a 300x250 ad would disrupt a table, the ad > > will render as a banner ad) > > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080606/d1cc3a38/attachment.html From greyman.wikia at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 19:42:45 2008 From: greyman.wikia at gmail.com (Greyman) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 15:42:45 -0400 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: <93ccdf1d0806061239w3cac8567m208d1f798c556d60@mail.gmail.com> References: <5A9E891B-E514-4DAF-8F2D-8B37E68F3619@mac.com> <93ccdf1d0806061239w3cac8567m208d1f798c556d60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Except that the ad, if I'm understanding the pictures correctly on Central, are going to (from some users' perspectives) drastically alter the layout of existing articles with infobox-type templates aligned right. Greyman 2008/6/6 George Pribul : > Note that only the main page will have the fixed width design - all other > pages will be full browser width as normal, with no requirements to change > designs. > > Kirkburn / George Pribul > WoWWiki admin, Wikia helper > > 2008/6/6 Gaylin Walli : > > I have to say that of all the changes, this is the on that distresses >> me the most. It means an entire revamp of the design of nearly all our >> article pages. I am, to put it mildly, incredibly angry and sad about >> this change. >> >> With incredible regrets, >> >> Kodia Tomekeeper >> Senior Admin, EQ2i >> >> On Jun 6, 2008, at 1:54 PM, wikia-l-request at wikia.com wrote: >> >> > Article pages will have ads in the content area. Logged-in users >> > will only see one ad unit on article pages -- a 300x250 ad unit at the >> > top right. (On pages where a 300x250 ad would disrupt a table, the ad >> > will render as a banner ad) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikia-l mailing list >> Wikia-l at wikia.com >> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > -- Greyman http://www.wikia.com/wiki/User:Greyman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080606/61c74504/attachment.html From toughpigs at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 20:42:55 2008 From: toughpigs at gmail.com (Danny Horn) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 13:42:55 -0700 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: References: <5A9E891B-E514-4DAF-8F2D-8B37E68F3619@mac.com> <93ccdf1d0806061239w3cac8567m208d1f798c556d60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The ad will essentially act the way that an image or an infobox does, moving things on the right down a step. That will affect page design, and communities will have to look at the new format and decide how they want to adjust. Some wikis may decide that they want to change the way they approach certain templates or infoboxes. Luckily, these are wikis, so everybody gets to help with whatever adjustments need to be made. Personally, as someone who works on wikis all the time, it took a while for me to get used to the new format. Initially, I had the same kind of gut response -- I liked the way things were, and I really didn't want them to change. Now that I've been working with the new format for a while, it's not really as much of a change as I thought. It's still just one ad, but it's in the right corner rather than spread across the top. The first part of the change is going to happen on Tuesday -- the edit bar will move up, and the ads will start appearing on article pages. Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing how wikis adapt to the new format. Wiki people are great at figuring out design tricks -- and when one wiki comes up with a good idea, it can spread to others very quickly. It'll be interesting to see what happens. -- Danny Danny Horn User:Toughpigs Community Development Manager, Wikia On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Greyman wrote: > Except that the ad, if I'm understanding the pictures correctly on Central, > are going to (from some users' perspectives) drastically alter the layout of > existing articles with infobox-type templates aligned right. > > Greyman > > > 2008/6/6 George Pribul : > > Note that only the main page will have the fixed width design - all other >> pages will be full browser width as normal, with no requirements to change >> designs. >> >> Kirkburn / George Pribul >> WoWWiki admin, Wikia helper >> >> 2008/6/6 Gaylin Walli : >> >> I have to say that of all the changes, this is the on that distresses >>> me the most. It means an entire revamp of the design of nearly all our >>> article pages. I am, to put it mildly, incredibly angry and sad about >>> this change. >>> >>> With incredible regrets, >>> >>> Kodia Tomekeeper >>> Senior Admin, EQ2i >>> >>> On Jun 6, 2008, at 1:54 PM, wikia-l-request at wikia.com wrote: >>> >>> > Article pages will have ads in the content area. Logged-in users >>> > will only see one ad unit on article pages -- a 300x250 ad unit at the >>> > top right. (On pages where a 300x250 ad would disrupt a table, the ad >>> > will render as a banner ad) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikia-l mailing list >>> Wikia-l at wikia.com >>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikia-l mailing list >> Wikia-l at wikia.com >> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >> > > > > -- > Greyman > http://www.wikia.com/wiki/User:Greyman > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080606/9a31f633/attachment.html From rsw154 at psu.edu Fri Jun 6 21:13:14 2008 From: rsw154 at psu.edu (rsw154 at psu.edu) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:13:14 -0400 Subject: [Wikia-l] Slander/libel considerations on Wikia Message-ID: <1212786794l.622626l.0l@psu.edu> >> Supposing the wiki editors >> don't >> start shouting at each other or at the BLP subject, but actually listen to >> each >> other's lines of reasoning? That could take days! > And sometimes it does, and this is something you must be prepared for. Heh, that was meant as sarcasm. The Angela Beesley article on Wikipedia was deleted, what, a year and a half after she brought it up? > Sometimes you just have to make hard decisions. This is where the need for > personal leadership comes in - if you can be convincing enough and champion > a valid a way out of eternal flame-wars, you may avoid contributor burnout. > (I had a productive little meeting with five > other admins at Anthrocon 2006 in which we eventually dropped the > "user-editable page policy", among other changes) One thing I have learned from this situation is that the Doom Wiki is at an awkward intermediate stage of growth: too large for the founders to be trusted with off-wiki shortcuts like the one above, but too small to risk a drama storm by handling legitimate complaints pedantically. In addition, we've been around long enough that the people at the major community portals are aware of us, but they still view the wiki's content as "maintained by someone else" rather than open to their contributions. A statement by one or more wiki admins that a unilateral decision had been made without obvious consensus, "for the greater good", would strengthen that belief irreversibly. (In fairness, their assumptions are undoubtedly supported by their experiences of every other gaming web site ever.) Thus, although I personally thought a courtesy deletion policy the best compromise between remaining "encyclopedic" and not leaving anyone permanently pissed off, the on-wiki discussion did not concur with my opinion, and I was about to close the thread accordingly. Fortunately, one of the admins of longer community standing did it first (I really had been pretty involved in the heated arguments, so I thought it would look like a power grab; maybe that's not what GreenReaper meant by "strong leadership"). The upshot is that, while we couldn't agree on any general policy, we managed to decide that putting the controversial paragraph in the bio article was giving it undue weight, and that it really belongs in the article with the other six or seven controversies (!) related to the same software. Maybe when _60 Minutes_ finally does a story on people whose job prospects and credit rating are damaged by Google results, we'll have to revisit the issue... Are we a more mature project now that we've had our Allison Stokke case? Like other forms of maturation, by the time you find out whether or not it was a good idea, it's too late to change your mind (I know I'm done sticking my nose into the bio articles). Again, thank you all for responding here; I didn't use all your suggestions, but each one made me feel that I wasn't alone. -- "Ryan W" From dan_the_man at telus.net Fri Jun 6 22:24:25 2008 From: dan_the_man at telus.net (DanTMan) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:24:25 -0700 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> References: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> Message-ID: <4849B919.7030401@telus.net> Before it's made global, can the techs go back over various locations (Main Page, User page, User subpage, Recent changes, an Article) and verify that /every/ accessibility link in Monobook also has a counterpart in Monaco. I've noticed that Monaco is still missing some of the important links that are automatically put into Monobook's toolbox. Most notably the link pointing to the relevant [[Special:Recentchangeslinked/{{FULLPAGENAME}}]] page does not appear in Monaco. Those are fairly important to the UI, especially when it comes to someone using the [[Special:Mypage/Watchlist]] trick to create a watchlist they can use a RSS feed for, I had to manually edit the contents of the address bar to try and get there. And even worse, I don't recall if the RSS button even was there? ~Daniel Friesen(Dantman) of: -The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) --It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) --Games-G.P.S. (http://ggps.org) -And Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG) Gil Penchina wrote: > I have some important news. Wikia is making some changes to the way > that our wikis look, and we'll see these changes rolling out site-wide > over the next few weeks. > > Wikia has grown tremendously over the last few years. Since our launch > in 2004, Wikia has grown from one shared server to more than 6,000 > communities supported by 84 servers and a nine member community team > offering help from around the world 24. Wikia is home to the most > passionate communities on the internet and I'm always excited to see the > amazing and beautiful sites that you're creating. Our goal is to enable > you, our most important customers, to build the world's best resource on > every topic. > > Wikia provides more than free hosting and bandwidth. We offer technical > support, great new features and extensions, promotional opportunities > and community support. Those services are provided free for all users, > with costs paid by advertisers. > > However, the internet ad market is changing and we have to change to > keep up. Our challenge is to offer an attractive package to our > advertisers, while maintaining the best user experience possible for our > readers and editors: > > * We have to standardize the way our site looks across all wikis, using > the Monaco skin for anonymous users. In the past, communities have used > various skins -- Monaco, Quartz or Monobook. That's a luxury that we > can't afford to offer any more, as advertisers strongly prefer a > consistent look-and-feel. > > * Based on your feedback, we're making some changes to Monaco that > return it to more of a Monobook look and feel and moves the content > higher on the page. > > * We're going to roll out a more flexible ad server that will let us > vary the size, location and placement of ads. > > The changes will be rolled out site-wide over the next few weeks. > There's a lot of information about what's coming up on this page: > http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia's_New_Style . I'll hit the highlights > here, and then you can read more about it on that page. > > The big changes will be: > > * Every wiki will use Monaco as the default skin but we will continue to > offer choice for registered users who want to set their preferences > > * The edit bar and the content area will move up, replacing the area > where the banner ad was. > > * Article pages will have ads in the content area. Logged-in users > will only see one ad unit on article pages -- a 300x250 ad unit at the > top right. (On pages where a 300x250 ad would disrupt a table, the ad > will render as a banner ad) > > * The logo will return to the Monobook 135x155px Wiki.png image. > > * Main pages will be redesigned to accommodate a 300x250px ad unit. > > * Ads will be removed from many pages used by our most active users and > will only appear on article pages, image pages, preview pages and > category pages. > > Obviously, this will be a period of adjustment, especially for wikis > that have been using Monobook. The community and content teams will be > working with many communities over the next few weeks to help make the > transition. I know that many people are attached to the Monobook skin, > and I hope the new Monaco gives people more of the Monobook feel, with a > number of advantages that make the wiki experience better. For example: > > * The Monaco skin is easier to customize to fit a particular community's > look and feel. There are more opportunities to add color and images to > the skin. > > * The page is now optimized, so the content loads faster. > > * Monaco is easier for new wiki users to understand. The majority of > internet users still don't realize that there's an "edit" button on > Wikipedia. That's because on Monobook, all the important links and > buttons are written in 8.5-point type. Monaco is designed to make the > important stuff stand out, like the edit button and the search box and > we've seen increased usage of both. > > * When wikis have switched from Monobook to Monaco, they've seen huge > jumps in the number of readers, contributors and user logins. As an > example, Teletraan-I: The Transformers Wiki switched to Monaco in April. > Comparing January (in Monobook) to May (in Monaco), the wiki's traffic > jumped up 46%. Anonymous logins went up 223%, and use of the search box > went up an amazing 541%. People clicked on items in the navigation > flyout menus 38,000 times in May, and the number of active editors went > up 51%, from 78 in January to 118 in May. > > Overall, we feel that the changes will improve the health and growth of > the entire Wikia community by converting more viewers into contributors > to make our communities more vibrant. At the same time, the changes will > give us the resources to ensure that every wiki will be able to continue > to count on Wikia for support and great service for years to come. > > Thank you for your continued support and for the amazing work that you > do every day to build a great resource on every topic. > > User:Gil > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > > From c.stafford at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 22:27:05 2008 From: c.stafford at gmail.com (C Stafford) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 18:27:05 -0400 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: <4849B919.7030401@telus.net> References: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> <4849B919.7030401@telus.net> Message-ID: <613c581d0806061527s4a7aa84dxe8c05398d5014499@mail.gmail.com> the perm link has been missing in monaco too -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080606/a56ee15a/attachment.html From toughpigs at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 00:17:26 2008 From: toughpigs at gmail.com (Danny Horn) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:17:26 -0700 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: <4849B919.7030401@telus.net> References: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> <4849B919.7030401@telus.net> Message-ID: You can customize the toolbox on any wiki by editing MediaWiki:Monaco-toolbox. The links that you mention aren't used by most users, so they aren't part of the default toolbox. If they're important to you, then you can customize the toolbox. -- Danny User:Toughpigs Community Development Manager, Wikia On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:24 PM, DanTMan wrote: > Before it's made global, can the techs go back over various locations > (Main Page, User page, User subpage, Recent changes, an Article) and > verify that /every/ accessibility link in Monobook also has a > counterpart in Monaco. I've noticed that Monaco is still missing some of > the important links that are automatically put into Monobook's toolbox. > Most notably the link pointing to the relevant > [[Special:Recentchangeslinked/{{FULLPAGENAME}}]] page does not appear in > Monaco. Those are fairly important to the UI, especially when it comes > to someone using the [[Special:Mypage/Watchlist]] trick to create a > watchlist they can use a RSS feed for, I had to manually edit the > contents of the address bar to try and get there. And even worse, I > don't recall if the RSS button even was there? > > ~Daniel Friesen(Dantman) of: > -The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) > --It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) > --Games-G.P.S. (http://ggps.org) > -And Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG) > > Gil Penchina wrote: > > I have some important news. Wikia is making some changes to the way > > that our wikis look, and we'll see these changes rolling out site-wide > > over the next few weeks. > > > > Wikia has grown tremendously over the last few years. Since our launch > > in 2004, Wikia has grown from one shared server to more than 6,000 > > communities supported by 84 servers and a nine member community team > > offering help from around the world 24. Wikia is home to the most > > passionate communities on the internet and I'm always excited to see the > > amazing and beautiful sites that you're creating. Our goal is to enable > > you, our most important customers, to build the world's best resource on > > every topic. > > > > Wikia provides more than free hosting and bandwidth. We offer technical > > support, great new features and extensions, promotional opportunities > > and community support. Those services are provided free for all users, > > with costs paid by advertisers. > > > > However, the internet ad market is changing and we have to change to > > keep up. Our challenge is to offer an attractive package to our > > advertisers, while maintaining the best user experience possible for our > > readers and editors: > > > > * We have to standardize the way our site looks across all wikis, using > > the Monaco skin for anonymous users. In the past, communities have used > > various skins -- Monaco, Quartz or Monobook. That's a luxury that we > > can't afford to offer any more, as advertisers strongly prefer a > > consistent look-and-feel. > > > > * Based on your feedback, we're making some changes to Monaco that > > return it to more of a Monobook look and feel and moves the content > > higher on the page. > > > > * We're going to roll out a more flexible ad server that will let us > > vary the size, location and placement of ads. > > > > The changes will be rolled out site-wide over the next few weeks. > > There's a lot of information about what's coming up on this page: > > http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia's_New_Style. I'll hit the highlights > > here, and then you can read more about it on that page. > > > > The big changes will be: > > > > * Every wiki will use Monaco as the default skin but we will continue to > > offer choice for registered users who want to set their preferences > > > > * The edit bar and the content area will move up, replacing the area > > where the banner ad was. > > > > * Article pages will have ads in the content area. Logged-in users > > will only see one ad unit on article pages -- a 300x250 ad unit at the > > top right. (On pages where a 300x250 ad would disrupt a table, the ad > > will render as a banner ad) > > > > * The logo will return to the Monobook 135x155px Wiki.png image. > > > > * Main pages will be redesigned to accommodate a 300x250px ad unit. > > > > * Ads will be removed from many pages used by our most active users and > > will only appear on article pages, image pages, preview pages and > > category pages. > > > > Obviously, this will be a period of adjustment, especially for wikis > > that have been using Monobook. The community and content teams will be > > working with many communities over the next few weeks to help make the > > transition. I know that many people are attached to the Monobook skin, > > and I hope the new Monaco gives people more of the Monobook feel, with a > > number of advantages that make the wiki experience better. For example: > > > > * The Monaco skin is easier to customize to fit a particular community's > > look and feel. There are more opportunities to add color and images to > > the skin. > > > > * The page is now optimized, so the content loads faster. > > > > * Monaco is easier for new wiki users to understand. The majority of > > internet users still don't realize that there's an "edit" button on > > Wikipedia. That's because on Monobook, all the important links and > > buttons are written in 8.5-point type. Monaco is designed to make the > > important stuff stand out, like the edit button and the search box and > > we've seen increased usage of both. > > > > * When wikis have switched from Monobook to Monaco, they've seen huge > > jumps in the number of readers, contributors and user logins. As an > > example, Teletraan-I: The Transformers Wiki switched to Monaco in April. > > Comparing January (in Monobook) to May (in Monaco), the wiki's traffic > > jumped up 46%. Anonymous logins went up 223%, and use of the search box > > went up an amazing 541%. People clicked on items in the navigation > > flyout menus 38,000 times in May, and the number of active editors went > > up 51%, from 78 in January to 118 in May. > > > > Overall, we feel that the changes will improve the health and growth of > > the entire Wikia community by converting more viewers into contributors > > to make our communities more vibrant. At the same time, the changes will > > give us the resources to ensure that every wiki will be able to continue > > to count on Wikia for support and great service for years to come. > > > > Thank you for your continued support and for the amazing work that you > > do every day to build a great resource on every topic. > > > > User:Gil > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikia-l mailing list > > Wikia-l at wikia.com > > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080606/cca7d626/attachment.html From dan_the_man at telus.net Sat Jun 7 01:04:37 2008 From: dan_the_man at telus.net (DanTMan) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:04:37 -0700 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: References: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> <4849B919.7030401@telus.net> Message-ID: <4849DEA5.3070307@telus.net> It's not a wiki thing, nor a user thing... It's not something you should even be customizing that message for. Every page has a linked recent changes page, and these kind of special pages are not easily accessible unless you keep the links that the MediaWiki software purposefully puts there. And whilst small, people do use these links, and just removing them is going to make useful features used even less. ~Daniel Friesen(Dantman) of: -The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) --It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) --Games-G.P.S. (http://ggps.org) -And Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG) Danny Horn wrote: > You can customize the toolbox on any wiki by editing > MediaWiki:Monaco-toolbox. The links that you mention aren't used by most > users, so they aren't part of the default toolbox. If they're important to > you, then you can customize the toolbox. > > > -- Danny > > User:Toughpigs > Community Development Manager, Wikia > > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:24 PM, DanTMan wrote: > > >> Before it's made global, can the techs go back over various locations >> (Main Page, User page, User subpage, Recent changes, an Article) and >> verify that /every/ accessibility link in Monobook also has a >> counterpart in Monaco. I've noticed that Monaco is still missing some of >> the important links that are automatically put into Monobook's toolbox. >> Most notably the link pointing to the relevant >> [[Special:Recentchangeslinked/{{FULLPAGENAME}}]] page does not appear in >> Monaco. Those are fairly important to the UI, especially when it comes >> to someone using the [[Special:Mypage/Watchlist]] trick to create a >> watchlist they can use a RSS feed for, I had to manually edit the >> contents of the address bar to try and get there. And even worse, I >> don't recall if the RSS button even was there? >> >> ~Daniel Friesen(Dantman) of: >> -The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) >> --It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) >> --Games-G.P.S. (http://ggps.org) >> -And Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG) >> >> Gil Penchina wrote: >> >>> I have some important news. Wikia is making some changes to the way >>> that our wikis look, and we'll see these changes rolling out site-wide >>> over the next few weeks. >>> >>> Wikia has grown tremendously over the last few years. Since our launch >>> in 2004, Wikia has grown from one shared server to more than 6,000 >>> communities supported by 84 servers and a nine member community team >>> offering help from around the world 24. Wikia is home to the most >>> passionate communities on the internet and I'm always excited to see the >>> amazing and beautiful sites that you're creating. Our goal is to enable >>> you, our most important customers, to build the world's best resource on >>> every topic. >>> >>> Wikia provides more than free hosting and bandwidth. We offer technical >>> support, great new features and extensions, promotional opportunities >>> and community support. Those services are provided free for all users, >>> with costs paid by advertisers. >>> >>> However, the internet ad market is changing and we have to change to >>> keep up. Our challenge is to offer an attractive package to our >>> advertisers, while maintaining the best user experience possible for our >>> readers and editors: >>> >>> * We have to standardize the way our site looks across all wikis, using >>> the Monaco skin for anonymous users. In the past, communities have used >>> various skins -- Monaco, Quartz or Monobook. That's a luxury that we >>> can't afford to offer any more, as advertisers strongly prefer a >>> consistent look-and-feel. >>> >>> * Based on your feedback, we're making some changes to Monaco that >>> return it to more of a Monobook look and feel and moves the content >>> higher on the page. >>> >>> * We're going to roll out a more flexible ad server that will let us >>> vary the size, location and placement of ads. >>> >>> The changes will be rolled out site-wide over the next few weeks. >>> There's a lot of information about what's coming up on this page: >>> http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia's_New_Style. I'll hit the highlights >>> here, and then you can read more about it on that page. >>> >>> The big changes will be: >>> >>> * Every wiki will use Monaco as the default skin but we will continue to >>> offer choice for registered users who want to set their preferences >>> >>> * The edit bar and the content area will move up, replacing the area >>> where the banner ad was. >>> >>> * Article pages will have ads in the content area. Logged-in users >>> will only see one ad unit on article pages -- a 300x250 ad unit at the >>> top right. (On pages where a 300x250 ad would disrupt a table, the ad >>> will render as a banner ad) >>> >>> * The logo will return to the Monobook 135x155px Wiki.png image. >>> >>> * Main pages will be redesigned to accommodate a 300x250px ad unit. >>> >>> * Ads will be removed from many pages used by our most active users and >>> will only appear on article pages, image pages, preview pages and >>> category pages. >>> >>> Obviously, this will be a period of adjustment, especially for wikis >>> that have been using Monobook. The community and content teams will be >>> working with many communities over the next few weeks to help make the >>> transition. I know that many people are attached to the Monobook skin, >>> and I hope the new Monaco gives people more of the Monobook feel, with a >>> number of advantages that make the wiki experience better. For example: >>> >>> * The Monaco skin is easier to customize to fit a particular community's >>> look and feel. There are more opportunities to add color and images to >>> the skin. >>> >>> * The page is now optimized, so the content loads faster. >>> >>> * Monaco is easier for new wiki users to understand. The majority of >>> internet users still don't realize that there's an "edit" button on >>> Wikipedia. That's because on Monobook, all the important links and >>> buttons are written in 8.5-point type. Monaco is designed to make the >>> important stuff stand out, like the edit button and the search box and >>> we've seen increased usage of both. >>> >>> * When wikis have switched from Monobook to Monaco, they've seen huge >>> jumps in the number of readers, contributors and user logins. As an >>> example, Teletraan-I: The Transformers Wiki switched to Monaco in April. >>> Comparing January (in Monobook) to May (in Monaco), the wiki's traffic >>> jumped up 46%. Anonymous logins went up 223%, and use of the search box >>> went up an amazing 541%. People clicked on items in the navigation >>> flyout menus 38,000 times in May, and the number of active editors went >>> up 51%, from 78 in January to 118 in May. >>> >>> Overall, we feel that the changes will improve the health and growth of >>> the entire Wikia community by converting more viewers into contributors >>> to make our communities more vibrant. At the same time, the changes will >>> give us the resources to ensure that every wiki will be able to continue >>> to count on Wikia for support and great service for years to come. >>> >>> Thank you for your continued support and for the amazing work that you >>> do every day to build a great resource on every topic. >>> >>> User:Gil >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikia-l mailing list >>> Wikia-l at wikia.com >>> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikia-l mailing list >> Wikia-l at wikia.com >> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080606/b6170155/attachment-0001.html From charitwo at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 01:20:26 2008 From: charitwo at gmail.com (Charitwo) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 20:20:26 -0500 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: References: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> <4849B919.7030401@telus.net> Message-ID: Users can also do a further breakdown if they don't like the sitewide sidebar/toolbox ala [[Special:Mypage/Monaco-sidebar]] and [[Special:Mypage/Monaco-toolbox]] On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Danny Horn wrote: > You can customize the toolbox on any wiki by editing > MediaWiki:Monaco-toolbox. The links that you mention aren't used by most > users, so they aren't part of the default toolbox. If they're important to > you, then you can customize the toolbox. > > > -- Danny > > User:Toughpigs > Community Development Manager, Wikia > > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:24 PM, DanTMan wrote: > >> Before it's made global, can the techs go back over various locations >> (Main Page, User page, User subpage, Recent changes, an Article) and >> verify that /every/ accessibility link in Monobook also has a >> counterpart in Monaco. I've noticed that Monaco is still missing some of >> the important links that are automatically put into Monobook's toolbox. >> Most notably the link pointing to the relevant >> [[Special:Recentchangeslinked/{{FULLPAGENAME}}]] page does not appear in >> Monaco. Those are fairly important to the UI, especially when it comes >> to someone using the [[Special:Mypage/Watchlist]] trick to create a >> watchlist they can use a RSS feed for, I had to manually edit the >> contents of the address bar to try and get there. And even worse, I >> don't recall if the RSS button even was there? >> >> ~Daniel Friesen(Dantman) of: >> -The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) >> --It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) >> --Games-G.P.S. (http://ggps.org) >> -And Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG) >> >> Gil Penchina wrote: >> > I have some important news. Wikia is making some changes to the way >> > that our wikis look, and we'll see these changes rolling out site-wide >> > over the next few weeks. >> > >> > Wikia has grown tremendously over the last few years. Since our launch >> > in 2004, Wikia has grown from one shared server to more than 6,000 >> > communities supported by 84 servers and a nine member community team >> > offering help from around the world 24. Wikia is home to the most >> > passionate communities on the internet and I'm always excited to see the >> > amazing and beautiful sites that you're creating. Our goal is to enable >> > you, our most important customers, to build the world's best resource on >> > every topic. >> > >> > Wikia provides more than free hosting and bandwidth. We offer technical >> > support, great new features and extensions, promotional opportunities >> > and community support. Those services are provided free for all users, >> > with costs paid by advertisers. >> > >> > However, the internet ad market is changing and we have to change to >> > keep up. Our challenge is to offer an attractive package to our >> > advertisers, while maintaining the best user experience possible for our >> > readers and editors: >> > >> > * We have to standardize the way our site looks across all wikis, using >> > the Monaco skin for anonymous users. In the past, communities have used >> > various skins -- Monaco, Quartz or Monobook. That's a luxury that we >> > can't afford to offer any more, as advertisers strongly prefer a >> > consistent look-and-feel. >> > >> > * Based on your feedback, we're making some changes to Monaco that >> > return it to more of a Monobook look and feel and moves the content >> > higher on the page. >> > >> > * We're going to roll out a more flexible ad server that will let us >> > vary the size, location and placement of ads. >> > >> > The changes will be rolled out site-wide over the next few weeks. >> > There's a lot of information about what's coming up on this page: >> > http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia's_New_Style. I'll hit the highlights >> > here, and then you can read more about it on that page. >> > >> > The big changes will be: >> > >> > * Every wiki will use Monaco as the default skin but we will continue to >> > offer choice for registered users who want to set their preferences >> > >> > * The edit bar and the content area will move up, replacing the area >> > where the banner ad was. >> > >> > * Article pages will have ads in the content area. Logged-in users >> > will only see one ad unit on article pages -- a 300x250 ad unit at the >> > top right. (On pages where a 300x250 ad would disrupt a table, the ad >> > will render as a banner ad) >> > >> > * The logo will return to the Monobook 135x155px Wiki.png image. >> > >> > * Main pages will be redesigned to accommodate a 300x250px ad unit. >> > >> > * Ads will be removed from many pages used by our most active users and >> > will only appear on article pages, image pages, preview pages and >> > category pages. >> > >> > Obviously, this will be a period of adjustment, especially for wikis >> > that have been using Monobook. The community and content teams will be >> > working with many communities over the next few weeks to help make the >> > transition. I know that many people are attached to the Monobook skin, >> > and I hope the new Monaco gives people more of the Monobook feel, with a >> > number of advantages that make the wiki experience better. For example: >> > >> > * The Monaco skin is easier to customize to fit a particular community's >> > look and feel. There are more opportunities to add color and images to >> > the skin. >> > >> > * The page is now optimized, so the content loads faster. >> > >> > * Monaco is easier for new wiki users to understand. The majority of >> > internet users still don't realize that there's an "edit" button on >> > Wikipedia. That's because on Monobook, all the important links and >> > buttons are written in 8.5-point type. Monaco is designed to make the >> > important stuff stand out, like the edit button and the search box and >> > we've seen increased usage of both. >> > >> > * When wikis have switched from Monobook to Monaco, they've seen huge >> > jumps in the number of readers, contributors and user logins. As an >> > example, Teletraan-I: The Transformers Wiki switched to Monaco in April. >> > Comparing January (in Monobook) to May (in Monaco), the wiki's traffic >> > jumped up 46%. Anonymous logins went up 223%, and use of the search box >> > went up an amazing 541%. People clicked on items in the navigation >> > flyout menus 38,000 times in May, and the number of active editors went >> > up 51%, from 78 in January to 118 in May. >> > >> > Overall, we feel that the changes will improve the health and growth of >> > the entire Wikia community by converting more viewers into contributors >> > to make our communities more vibrant. At the same time, the changes will >> > give us the resources to ensure that every wiki will be able to continue >> > to count on Wikia for support and great service for years to come. >> > >> > Thank you for your continued support and for the amazing work that you >> > do every day to build a great resource on every topic. >> > >> > User:Gil >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikia-l mailing list >> > Wikia-l at wikia.com >> > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikia-l mailing list >> Wikia-l at wikia.com >> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080606/1a1edd4b/attachment.html From c.stafford at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 01:24:08 2008 From: c.stafford at gmail.com (C Stafford) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 21:24:08 -0400 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: References: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> <4849B919.7030401@telus.net> Message-ID: <613c581d0806061824v505b6fe1xe98e84a552211886@mail.gmail.com> actually, you cant use {{PAGENAME}} in those (because of caching), so you cant make your own links via those methods -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080606/31d653a8/attachment.html From havac at wookieepedia.com Sat Jun 7 01:41:59 2008 From: havac at wookieepedia.com (Havac) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 20:41:59 -0500 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia new style Message-ID: <41938c260806061841p42e58a75w6e5bfa5aca6e5eb4@mail.gmail.com> After having read the information on Wikia's new style, and discussing the issue with several of my fellow Wookieepedia admins, and many of our most dedicated users, I feel compelled to try to get across the message of just what a bad idea this is. Specifically, the decision to inject advertisements into the content of articles and the main page. When this was announced on the Wookieepedia IRC channel, in which almost all the major Wookieepedia contributors and admins spend time, it failed to garner anything but utter derision and disgust. The first question was "Can we move somewhere else?" Many of our users, myself included, were outraged. Not a single person spoke up in defense of the idea. Greyman, one of our administrators and a Wikia janitor, has informed me that he registered complaints, and was blithely assured that he was in the minority. Perhaps those who said so genuinely believed this. I fail to see on what evidence they have based this, and it certainly does not match my experience. As I have stated in the IRC channel, I couldn't care less where ads are placed, or how many are placed. So long as they're not flashing garish colors or advertising goat pornography, they don't bother me. I understand business. I understand that advertising money is rightfully a major factor in decisions. We can't run Wikia on pure love for Star Wars or Star Trek or muppets or whatever our chosen subject is. But I have to draw the line at forcing advertising into the content of an article. Our articles are meticulously laid out to look good. Almost all of them have some sort of infobox at the top that would get forced well down the page by the proposed advertisement. They have images that would probably be forced out of alignment by pushing the infobox down. Moreover, the very idea of sticking foreign advertisements into the content area is pretty offensive to our dedicated users, who put a lot of time into their articles. As I said, I don't give a dang about what goes on outside that little box of individual article content. But unilaterally forcing (and the unilateral imposition of Wikia decrees on wikis with little or no warning and less consent has been a point of repeated outrage for Wookieepedia admins and users alike) a big block of foreign content right at the top of each and every article, not just beside but *inside* it -- that is not at all appealing. It's a horrible decision that seems to be motivated only be sales department concerns with no consideration of the impact on users and readers. When people see a gigantic ad block inside the article they come to read, it's not going to impress them. It's going to look ugly and intrusive. When people search for Luke Skywalker and find a great big ad and a few paragraphs about Luke with half an image lurking at the bottom, they're going to want to look elsewhere. Instead of looking professional, it makes Wookieepedia and Wikia look cheap, mercenary, aggressive, and indifferent to the quality of their content and the presentation thereof. It looks flat-out chintzy. I know that when I go somewhere online and get confronted by a virtual Vegas of obnoxiously intrusive advertising, I'm immediately turned off. I don't want to have to get through an ad before I get to content. Maybe advertisers like it. No one else does. Dedicated users are going to be offended, as I am, at the prospect of advertising being forced into their work with no regard for the presentation of the article, and I know that the response from everyone I've talked to has been outrage. I'm sure this little plan will inspire a serious push for a move elsewhere, because this is not something that is going to be taken well. Especially in that it's been decreed without any input from the actual users, and all concerns are apparently being brushed off with the ridiculous line that people will get used to it. People shouldn't have to get used to bad ideas, not when they've not had any input in the decision. I've seen no explanation as to why Wikia could not attempt to gain better advertising revenue from ads outside the content space. Why not a floating ad at the very top of the page that can't be scrolled away? Why should what advertisers think they like most determine, without any other factor apparently being given much weight, that an extremely intrusive addition be forced onto all wikis? Objectively, I think this is a bad decision and a bad direction for Wikia. Moreover, I think it's absolutely no way to treat the people producing the content and the page hits that give Wikia something to sell. I have to ask that Wikia please reconsider this decision. Havac, Wookieepedia administrator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080606/b6e14e2f/attachment-0001.html From dan_the_man at telus.net Sat Jun 7 03:28:54 2008 From: dan_the_man at telus.net (DanTMan) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:28:54 -0700 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> References: <484979B2.8080204@wikia.com> Message-ID: <484A0076.7080906@telus.net> As with everything, this is money oriented... I can understand that as well, I have had some business education myself, and a bit of a sense for it to. But what about an alternate method of trying to generate profit? There are 3 sectors in the category of wiki hosting (not web hosting, hosting of MediaWiki). 1) The Generic Wiki (Coverage over the wide subjects, ie: An Encyclopedia), which Wikimedia nicely has covered. 2) The Community Topic (Dedicated to a specific topic, and run by a community motivated towards the topic, rather than having a head controlling it), which Wikia to has covered. 3) And the Group Wiki, one owned by a small group. This category is not completely covered, there are a lot of different hosts in this category, but there is no single one that has enough quality to compare with Wikimedia's or even Wikia's support. (ScribbleWiki comes close, however they are lacking in some basic features that their consumers are asking for...) Rather than trying to squeeze ad money out of the 2nd sector, why doesn't Wikia, as a company divide up into two branches. One branch (all existing staff) covering the 2nd sector, and a second branch targeting the 3rd sector. One branch targets the 2nd sector aiming primarily to further knowledge as does the Wikimedia Foundation. While the other branch targets the 3rd sector aiming primarily towards profit as that sector is primarily about. Such a business strategy could keep with the Open initiative that Wikia started out with, whilst still catering to the supporters who want profit out of Wikia. I've been doing a fair bit of looking into that 3rd sector. There is actually a fair bit of features and other methods a new host could come out with in that area to put themselves ahead of the others and take the top point in the market. Primarily because it was an area I was planning on getting into, originally the service was going to be titled Shout Wiki, though for a few unfortunate reasons I won't go into to much detail with, I'm opting for a new name and slogan. http://nadir-point.com/wiki/Wiki_Hosting Not to vulture, but I know of a few staring business strategies and features to roll out (Actually, I have the basis for a good Farm system... Even a Permissions management UI for wiki owners), there are plenty of things Wikia could do in the 3rd sector to earn some profit. Even with a few notable communities, some moved to Wikia from elsewhere because of the good hosting plan. However some of those may even still have a few people who used to manage it, some of those communities may prefer a donation basis rather than a ad basis (as Wikimedia is based on) and actually have the ability to support such a move. Some Wikia communities might wish to move to the 3rd sector, which would benefit Wikia's profit even more than a ad based profit margin. Just a thought though. ~Daniel Friesen(Dantman) of: -The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) --It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) --Games-G.P.S. (http://ggps.org) -And Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG) From johnb.beckett at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 06:10:27 2008 From: johnb.beckett at gmail.com (John Beckett) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 16:10:27 +1000 Subject: [Wikia-l] You have new messages on WoWWiki Message-ID: <000001c8c865$300c6570$01005b0a@quartz> At http://vim.wikia.org/ (where I'm normally found), every page has a "You have new messages on WoWWiki" banner, with a link to my non-existent talk page on http://www.wowwiki.com/ (which I don't recall having visited before). Is this a bug that will soon be fixed? Is wowwiki part of wikia? John From beesley at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 08:55:09 2008 From: beesley at gmail.com (Angela) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 18:55:09 +1000 Subject: [Wikia-l] You have new messages on WoWWiki In-Reply-To: <000001c8c865$300c6570$01005b0a@quartz> References: <000001c8c865$300c6570$01005b0a@quartz> Message-ID: <8b722b800806070155p624b898dk5a7e3a88196563a2@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 4:10 PM, John Beckett wrote: > At http://vim.wikia.org/ (where I'm normally found), every page has a "You have new > messages on WoWWiki" banner, with a link to my non-existent talk page on > http://www.wowwiki.com/ (which I don't recall having visited before). > > Is this a bug that will soon be fixed? Is wowwiki part of wikia? Hi John, If you log in, you'll see there is a message on your talk page there. Once you've been to the page the notification that you have new messages will disappear. The complication is that wowwiki is on a different domain which means you're not automatically logged in like you are on other Wikia sites (though your usual username and password will work there). Angela From johnb.beckett at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 13:13:43 2008 From: johnb.beckett at gmail.com (John Beckett) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 23:13:43 +1000 Subject: [Wikia-l] You have new messages on WoWWiki In-Reply-To: <8b722b800806070155p624b898dk5a7e3a88196563a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c8c865$300c6570$01005b0a@quartz> <8b722b800806070155p624b898dk5a7e3a88196563a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c8c8a0$50cc0690$01005b0a@quartz> Angela wrote: >> At http://vim.wikia.org/ (where I'm normally found), every >> page has a "You have new messages on WoWWiki" banner, with a >> link to my non-existent talk page on http://www.wowwiki.com/ >> (which I don't recall having visited before). >> >> Is this a bug that will soon be fixed? Is wowwiki part of >> wikia? > > If you log in, you'll see there is a message on your talk page > there. Once you've been to the page the notification that you > have new messages will disappear. > > The complication is that wowwiki is on a different domain > which means you're not automatically logged in like you are on > other Wikia sites (though your usual username and password > will work there). Thanks Angela. I think you are suggesting that I go to www.wowwiki.com and log on, then go to my talk page (which doesn't seem to exist) on that web site?? However, I'm not a very trusting kind of guy. Why would I enter my username and password on a web site that I don't recognise!? Anyway, the problem has gone away. I had tried logging off Wikia, closing all browser windows, and logging on again. And visiting my talk page on my wiki. No effect - I still got the wowwiki notification. However, I've just done it one more time, and there is no notification, so the matter is resolved for me. John From sannse at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 13:19:08 2008 From: sannse at gmail.com (sannse) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 14:19:08 +0100 Subject: [Wikia-l] You have new messages on WoWWiki In-Reply-To: <000001c8c8a0$50cc0690$01005b0a@quartz> References: <000001c8c865$300c6570$01005b0a@quartz> <8b722b800806070155p624b898dk5a7e3a88196563a2@mail.gmail.com> <000001c8c8a0$50cc0690$01005b0a@quartz> Message-ID: Hi John, WoWWiki is part of Wikia, so you already have an account there (your log in will work on every Wikia wiki other than Uncyclopedia). But I've cleared the message totally for now, it shouldn't have been directing you to WoWWiki - something was wrong there. We'll look into it, and find out why it was playing up like that. Sorry for the problem! -- sannse Lisa "sannse" Carter Wikia Community and Technical Team http://www.wikia.com > Thanks Angela. I think you are suggesting that I go to www.wowwiki.com and log on, > then go to my talk page (which doesn't seem to exist) on that web site?? > > However, I'm not a very trusting kind of guy. Why would I enter my username and > password on a web site that I don't recognise!? > > Anyway, the problem has gone away. I had tried logging off Wikia, closing all > browser windows, and logging on again. And visiting my talk page on my wiki. No > effect - I still got the wowwiki notification. However, I've just done it one more > time, and there is no notification, so the matter is resolved for me. > > John From twotailedfox at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 14:10:46 2008 From: twotailedfox at gmail.com (TwoTailedFox) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 15:10:46 +0100 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia new style In-Reply-To: <41938c260806061841p42e58a75w6e5bfa5aca6e5eb4@mail.gmail.com> References: <41938c260806061841p42e58a75w6e5bfa5aca6e5eb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I second this. Advertisements at the bottom, at the top, or at the side, is totally fine. But the line must be drawn somewhere; Advertisements in the very content of a Wikia's articles is offensive, not least to everyone who has contributed so much to getting them looking just right, Take the Yu-Gi-Oh Wikia. Use this article as an example: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Cyber_Jar Where would you logically put an advertisement in there without breaking the way the Table works, or making it look even uglier than it is now? Bad idea, really. On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Havac wrote: > After having read the information on Wikia's new style, and discussing the > issue with several of my fellow Wookieepedia admins, and many of our most > dedicated users, I feel compelled to try to get across the message of just > what a bad idea this is. Specifically, the decision to inject advertisements > into the content of articles and the main page. When this was announced on > the Wookieepedia IRC channel, in which almost all the major Wookieepedia > contributors and admins spend time, it failed to garner anything but utter > derision and disgust. The first question was "Can we move somewhere else?" > Many of our users, myself included, were outraged. Not a single person spoke > up in defense of the idea. Greyman, one of our administrators and a Wikia > janitor, has informed me that he registered complaints, and was blithely > assured that he was in the minority. Perhaps those who said so genuinely > believed this. I fail to see on what evidence they have based this, and it > certainly does not match my experience. > > As I have stated in the IRC channel, I couldn't care less where ads are > placed, or how many are placed. So long as they're not flashing garish > colors or advertising goat pornography, they don't bother me. I understand > business. I understand that advertising money is rightfully a major factor > in decisions. We can't run Wikia on pure love for Star Wars or Star Trek or > muppets or whatever our chosen subject is. But I have to draw the line at > forcing advertising into the content of an article. Our articles are > meticulously laid out to look good. Almost all of them have some sort of > infobox at the top that would get forced well down the page by the proposed > advertisement. They have images that would probably be forced out of > alignment by pushing the infobox down. Moreover, the very idea of sticking > foreign advertisements into the content area is pretty offensive to our > dedicated users, who put a lot of time into their articles. As I said, I > don't give a dang about what goes on outside that little box of individual > article content. But unilaterally forcing (and the unilateral imposition of > Wikia decrees on wikis with little or no warning and less consent has been a > point of repeated outrage for Wookieepedia admins and users alike) a big > block of foreign content right at the top of each and every article, not > just beside but *inside* it -- that is not at all appealing. It's a > horrible decision that seems to be motivated only be sales department > concerns with no consideration of the impact on users and readers. > > When people see a gigantic ad block inside the article they come to read, > it's not going to impress them. It's going to look ugly and intrusive. When > people search for Luke Skywalker and find a great big ad and a few > paragraphs about Luke with half an image lurking at the bottom, they're > going to want to look elsewhere. Instead of looking professional, it makes > Wookieepedia and Wikia look cheap, mercenary, aggressive, and indifferent to > the quality of their content and the presentation thereof. It looks flat-out > chintzy. I know that when I go somewhere online and get confronted by a > virtual Vegas of obnoxiously intrusive advertising, I'm immediately turned > off. I don't want to have to get through an ad before I get to content. > Maybe advertisers like it. No one else does. Dedicated users are going to be > offended, as I am, at the prospect of advertising being forced into their > work with no regard for the presentation of the article, and I know that the > response from everyone I've talked to has been outrage. I'm sure this little > plan will inspire a serious push for a move elsewhere, because this is not > something that is going to be taken well. Especially in that it's been > decreed without any input from the actual users, and all concerns are > apparently being brushed off with the ridiculous line that people will get > used to it. People shouldn't have to get used to bad ideas, not when they've > not had any input in the decision. I've seen no explanation as to why Wikia > could not attempt to gain better advertising revenue from ads outside the > content space. Why not a floating ad at the very top of the page that can't > be scrolled away? Why should what advertisers think they like most > determine, without any other factor apparently being given much weight, that > an extremely intrusive addition be forced onto all wikis? > > Objectively, I think this is a bad decision and a bad direction for Wikia. > Moreover, I think it's absolutely no way to treat the people producing the > content and the page hits that give Wikia something to sell. I have to ask > that Wikia please reconsider this decision. > > Havac, Wookieepedia administrator > > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > -- "I had a handle on life, but then it broke" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080607/88b8d7cc/attachment-0001.html From toughpigs at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 16:11:29 2008 From: toughpigs at gmail.com (Danny Horn) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:11:29 -0700 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia new style In-Reply-To: References: <41938c260806061841p42e58a75w6e5bfa5aca6e5eb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The ads won't actually break tables like the one on that Yu-Gi-Oh page. If the 300x250 ad would break a table at the top of the page, then you'll see a banner ad under the edit bar instead of a square ad. Essentially, the edit bar and the banner ad that you currently see on Monaco will switch places, with the edit bar on top and the banner underneath. This change is a huge deal. It's not something that we're taking lightly at all. What you're seeing right now is the result of months of conversations, tests and compromises. We looked at a lot of different options, including most of the ones that people are asking about. You're seeing the end result of that long process -- the best balance that we've been able to come up with so far. We have to change things in order to make Wikia financially stable. It would be great if we could host wikis with no advertising at all, or just have Google ads running in the footer. Unfortunately, Google ads in the footer pay pennies a click, and nobody clicks. We need to be able to attract real advertisers, who pay for impressions rather than clicks. Impressions work on a pageview basis -- the advertiser will pay for people to look at the ad, whether they click or not. But they won't pay for impressions if the ad is hidden at the bottom of the page, because they don't know whether people are scrolling down to look at the ad. The ad needs to be visible on the screen when people first come to the page, so the advertisers know that they're paying for real impressions. So how do you design a wiki page that has a 300x250 box at the top of the screen? Either you put it in the header, which pushes the entire content area down, or you put it in the sidebar so that it squishes the content area over... or you put it in the article area, and allow the content to wrap around it. We tried out all three versions, and I think putting the box into the article actually creates the least disruption. A huge header would make the content disappear to the bottom. A huge sidebar would create a big blank area on the left side of the screen as you scroll down. Having the box at the top right means that the only space that's being used for the ad is the 300x250 box itself. So what happens on Tuesday is basically a big test. Once things go live on Tuesday, there are a few things that we're going to be looking at very closely: * whether the system actually works the way we expect it to, and it doesn't break page designs * the actual impact on ad sales and click-through rates * the community reaction -- how people feel when the changes are actually live on the site * the overall impact on readers and contributors, which we can evaluate by looking at the stats on pageviews, edits and active editors. There are a couple of possible predictions that people could make. One prediction is that the change won't make any difference to people at all -- that it's just exchanging one ad shape for another, and people will adapt their designs around the new format. Another prediction is that the change will drive people away, that every wiki will lose their core contributors, and that all of the wikis will die within a week. But those are the extreme cases, and it's not likely that either of those will happen. It won't be a dream or a nightmare. Some people will hate it, some people will like it better, and some people won't care. We can't know for sure what's going to happen until we try it out. Once we turn it on, then we can start evaluating the impact, and making changes. The parts of this that work well will stay; the parts that are completely broken will have to change. One version of "completely broken" is that people read and contribute less. Right now, everything is theoretical. It's easy to say "this will be fine" or "this will drive every user away". We have to try it out and see what actually happens. I know how important everybody's wiki is, and how connected you feel to your wiki. I started Muppet Wiki in 2005, and I ended up working for Wikia because I figured out that I love working on wikis more than anything else in the world. There are a lot of wikis on Wikia that I'm tight with now, but Muppet Wiki is my home -- that's the community where I've put in hours of my own time every day, every week, for two and a half years. When I've felt like that community is threatened, I've fought like a tiger for it. So I'm paying a lot of attention to how this plays out. If it really hurts the wikis, we'll make changes. We just need to see the impact in order to know what's true and what's hypothetical. -- Danny User:Toughpigs Community Development Manager, Wikia On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 7:10 AM, TwoTailedFox wrote: > I second this. Advertisements at the bottom, at the top, or at the side, is > totally fine. > > But the line must be drawn somewhere; Advertisements in the very content of > a Wikia's articles is offensive, not least to everyone who has contributed > so much to getting them looking just right, > > Take the Yu-Gi-Oh Wikia. Use this article as an example: > > http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Cyber_Jar > > Where would you logically put an advertisement in there without breaking > the way the Table works, or making it look even uglier than it is now? Bad > idea, really. > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Havac wrote: > >> After having read the information on Wikia's new style, and discussing the >> issue with several of my fellow Wookieepedia admins, and many of our most >> dedicated users, I feel compelled to try to get across the message of just >> what a bad idea this is. Specifically, the decision to inject advertisements >> into the content of articles and the main page. When this was announced on >> the Wookieepedia IRC channel, in which almost all the major Wookieepedia >> contributors and admins spend time, it failed to garner anything but utter >> derision and disgust. The first question was "Can we move somewhere else?" >> Many of our users, myself included, were outraged. Not a single person spoke >> up in defense of the idea. Greyman, one of our administrators and a Wikia >> janitor, has informed me that he registered complaints, and was blithely >> assured that he was in the minority. Perhaps those who said so genuinely >> believed this. I fail to see on what evidence they have based this, and it >> certainly does not match my experience. >> >> As I have stated in the IRC channel, I couldn't care less where ads are >> placed, or how many are placed. So long as they're not flashing garish >> colors or advertising goat pornography, they don't bother me. I understand >> business. I understand that advertising money is rightfully a major factor >> in decisions. We can't run Wikia on pure love for Star Wars or Star Trek or >> muppets or whatever our chosen subject is. But I have to draw the line at >> forcing advertising into the content of an article. Our articles are >> meticulously laid out to look good. Almost all of them have some sort of >> infobox at the top that would get forced well down the page by the proposed >> advertisement. They have images that would probably be forced out of >> alignment by pushing the infobox down. Moreover, the very idea of sticking >> foreign advertisements into the content area is pretty offensive to our >> dedicated users, who put a lot of time into their articles. As I said, I >> don't give a dang about what goes on outside that little box of individual >> article content. But unilaterally forcing (and the unilateral imposition of >> Wikia decrees on wikis with little or no warning and less consent has been a >> point of repeated outrage for Wookieepedia admins and users alike) a big >> block of foreign content right at the top of each and every article, not >> just beside but *inside* it -- that is not at all appealing. It's a >> horrible decision that seems to be motivated only be sales department >> concerns with no consideration of the impact on users and readers. >> >> When people see a gigantic ad block inside the article they come to read, >> it's not going to impress them. It's going to look ugly and intrusive. When >> people search for Luke Skywalker and find a great big ad and a few >> paragraphs about Luke with half an image lurking at the bottom, they're >> going to want to look elsewhere. Instead of looking professional, it makes >> Wookieepedia and Wikia look cheap, mercenary, aggressive, and indifferent to >> the quality of their content and the presentation thereof. It looks flat-out >> chintzy. I know that when I go somewhere online and get confronted by a >> virtual Vegas of obnoxiously intrusive advertising, I'm immediately turned >> off. I don't want to have to get through an ad before I get to content. >> Maybe advertisers like it. No one else does. Dedicated users are going to be >> offended, as I am, at the prospect of advertising being forced into their >> work with no regard for the presentation of the article, and I know that the >> response from everyone I've talked to has been outrage. I'm sure this little >> plan will inspire a serious push for a move elsewhere, because this is not >> something that is going to be taken well. Especially in that it's been >> decreed without any input from the actual users, and all concerns are >> apparently being brushed off with the ridiculous line that people will get >> used to it. People shouldn't have to get used to bad ideas, not when they've >> not had any input in the decision. I've seen no explanation as to why Wikia >> could not attempt to gain better advertising revenue from ads outside the >> content space. Why not a floating ad at the very top of the page that can't >> be scrolled away? Why should what advertisers think they like most >> determine, without any other factor apparently being given much weight, that >> an extremely intrusive addition be forced onto all wikis? >> >> Objectively, I think this is a bad decision and a bad direction for Wikia. >> Moreover, I think it's absolutely no way to treat the people producing the >> content and the page hits that give Wikia something to sell. I have to ask >> that Wikia please reconsider this decision. >> >> Havac, Wookieepedia administrator >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikia-l mailing list >> Wikia-l at wikia.com >> http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l >> > > > > -- > "I had a handle on life, but then it broke" > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080607/b901528f/attachment.html From greenreaper at hotmail.com Sat Jun 7 20:49:12 2008 From: greenreaper at hotmail.com (Laurence Parry) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 16:49:12 -0400 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia new style In-Reply-To: <41938c260806061841p42e58a75w6e5bfa5aca6e5eb4@mail.gmail.com> References: <41938c260806061841p42e58a75w6e5bfa5aca6e5eb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Let me explain the situation from our point of view: Wikia provides a hosting service to its users - us, the wiki editors. You provide this service at no monetary charge, in exchange for our contributions (both editorial and promotional) and the ad space. We would otherwise have to pay for this service. We have, to this point, been satisfied with this service. Unfortunately, Wikia is apparently not making money on the service, or it no longer fits the company's business plans. It is therefore making changes to better align the services it provides with its needs. The new service Wikia has chosen to provide is simply not acceptable on a quality level to a significant proportion of your current customers. We would rather pay someone else money for hosting than use the service offered by Wikia at no charge. If Wikia does not resolve this situation to our satisfaction, then we will leave, taking our content, our communities' inward links, our established service marks, and our fellow editors with us. If you are thinking we would not take that risk, or that we would not be successful, think again. We are more than capable of organizing hosting, and most of us maintain sufficient personal control that if we choose to move, it will not be a fork - it will be a clean break. Of course, you will be able to keep your copies of the content (in most cases), but it will quickly depreciate without maintenance and the goodwill that came with it. Wikia cannot afford to recruit people to replace us - you of all should know the rarity of viable community leaders, even among a body of established wiki editors. Even if Wikia does find people willing to revive an abandoned wiki, they would be unlikely to garner support from our source communities - and all the time, we would be developing our own sites further, making Wikia merely an outdated mirror. The fact that the service would no longer be free of charge is not a significant barrier. Personally, I make a reasonable wage at my day job. Choosing to be hosted by Wikia was a cost/benefit decision, and the money required was only a part of that. There are other sources of funding, too. WikiFur has raised over a thousand dollars over the last two years without even trying: http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Ledger Would that be sufficient? Probably not; but we have not yet begun to ask. Our readers appreciate the service we (the editors) provide - perhaps more than Wikia - and I'm willing to bet they would pay for recognition as the service's benefactor. The larger the site, the more likely it is that this will be the case. So. Your service is not as sticky as you imagine. You cannot do without us, nor can you force us to remain, nor do you appear to be willing to keep us under current conditions. What can be done? The only solution that I see is for Wikia to start charging its communities a reasonable amount for use of its facilities, replacing the need for any ads, skin controls, or similar creative restrictions. If Wikia can provide a useful service at what we deem to be an acceptable cost, it would be logical to pay for it. I envisage something akin to a bandwidth-linked meter - if the account runs out of credit, the wiki switches to the ad-packed, skin-locked mode for unregistered users. It may be that Wikia's cost structures are too high, and that the price that Wikia can afford will be more than we are willing to pay. This would be unfortunate, but perhaps you will attract those who appreciate the proprietary features which you have developed, or the personal assistance you offer. All we really need is reliable hosting, which is pretty much a commodity these days. Wikia might also be exercising a higher level of control to further its corporate goals, looking beyond mere profit from services rendered towards (say) greater acquisition value. If so, we may have little to discuss. We are our own communities - not Wikia's - and we have our own needs. If you do not intend to provide a service that meets them, we must seek it elsewhere. -- Laurence "GreenReaper" Parry http://greenreaper.co.uk/ - http://wikifur.com/ "Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you drunk your fill?" From chadlupkes at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 22:07:46 2008 From: chadlupkes at gmail.com (Chad Lupkes) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 15:07:46 -0700 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia new style In-Reply-To: References: <41938c260806061841p42e58a75w6e5bfa5aca6e5eb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <801553ab0806071507t5661e718gee37bc4e70beec83@mail.gmail.com> I'm jumping in here. I see services like Wikia fail for several reasons, but the primary one is because we all fail to think outside of the box. The deliberations that were conducted on whether to move to this "ads inside content" model were done without any feedback from the users of the site. It was simply announced to us. That is not putting us first, the customer, the stakeholders. Revenue comes into Wikia in one and only one way. Advertising revenue. That will be the death of the Internet. I have sometimes searched for an ad that I am interested in clicking, but I gave up a long time ago. I don't click on any ad on any website. I don't think I am alone in this. Nobody is advertising anything that I am in the market for. Because what I AM in the market for is information that I can use to answer a question or that I find interesting in some way. If Advertising revenue is the only possible option that Wikia, Inc. is using to provide a revenue stream for paying expenses and staff, it will fail eventually, for the reasons that Laurence articulates below. Advertising is a gamble that people will want to see and buy your product. If people don't buy, it's a failed investment. There are other options to provide a funding stream. The best that I've ever seen is one used by the Veterans Family Fund here in Washington State. It uses a new fangled financial product called a Certificate of Deposit (CD). Hopefully most of you have heard of these. The CD's are offered by many of the state regulated banks here in my state, and are available in denominations as low as $100. People invest money into these CD's, and when they mature in 6 months, the interest is split in half. Half goes to build the balance of the CD, which is usually renewed for another 6 months. The other half of the interest goes as a donation to the Veterans Family Fund, a non-profit organization focused on helping military families. The interest rate is set by the banks, and is usually around 4%. Their goal is to reach a revenue stream of $6 million dollars for the charity, and they're going to make it this year, one year after launching the product in a single bank. It is now offered by almost two dozen banks, with branches in most areas of the state. I can't afford to donate to Wikia to keep the sites I manage ad free. But I can afford to invest some money that would earn interest, with part of that interest going to pay for the hosting and part of it coming back to me. I've mentioned this before, and I'll probably have to do it again. And I will, because I see this as a more positive future than anything based on ad revenue. Chad On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Laurence Parry wrote: > Let me explain the situation from our point of view: Wikia provides a > hosting service to its users - us, the wiki editors. You provide this > service at no monetary charge, in exchange for our contributions (both > editorial and promotional) and the ad space. We would otherwise have to pay > for this service. > > We have, to this point, been satisfied with this service. Unfortunately, > Wikia is apparently not making money on the service, or it no longer fits > the company's business plans. It is therefore making changes to better > align > the services it provides with its needs. > > The new service Wikia has chosen to provide is simply not acceptable on a > quality level to a significant proportion of your current customers. We > would rather pay someone else money for hosting than use the service > offered > by Wikia at no charge. > > If Wikia does not resolve this situation to our satisfaction, then we will > leave, taking our content, our communities' inward links, our established > service marks, and our fellow editors with us. If you are thinking we would > not take that risk, or that we would not be successful, think again. We are > more than capable of organizing hosting, and most of us maintain sufficient > personal control that if we choose to move, it will not be a fork - it will > be a clean break. > > Of course, you will be able to keep your copies of the content (in most > cases), but it will quickly depreciate without maintenance and the goodwill > that came with it. Wikia cannot afford to recruit people to replace us - > you > of all should know the rarity of viable community leaders, even among a > body > of established wiki editors. Even if Wikia does find people willing to > revive an abandoned wiki, they would be unlikely to garner support from our > source communities - and all the time, we would be developing our own sites > further, making Wikia merely an outdated mirror. > > The fact that the service would no longer be free of charge is not a > significant barrier. Personally, I make a reasonable wage at my day job. > Choosing to be hosted by Wikia was a cost/benefit decision, and the money > required was only a part of that. > > There are other sources of funding, too. WikiFur has raised over a thousand > dollars over the last two years without even trying: > http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Ledger > Would that be sufficient? Probably not; but we have not yet begun to ask. > Our readers appreciate the service we (the editors) provide - perhaps more > than Wikia - and I'm willing to bet they would pay for recognition as the > service's benefactor. The larger the site, the more likely it is that this > will be the case. > > So. Your service is not as sticky as you imagine. You cannot do without us, > nor can you force us to remain, nor do you appear to be willing to keep us > under current conditions. What can be done? > > The only solution that I see is for Wikia to start charging its communities > a reasonable amount for use of its facilities, replacing the need for any > ads, skin controls, or similar creative restrictions. If Wikia can provide > a > useful service at what we deem to be an acceptable cost, it would be > logical > to pay for it. I envisage something akin to a bandwidth-linked meter - if > the account runs out of credit, the wiki switches to the ad-packed, > skin-locked mode for unregistered users. > > It may be that Wikia's cost structures are too high, and that the price > that > Wikia can afford will be more than we are willing to pay. This would be > unfortunate, but perhaps you will attract those who appreciate the > proprietary features which you have developed, or the personal assistance > you offer. All we really need is reliable hosting, which is pretty much a > commodity these days. > > Wikia might also be exercising a higher level of control to further its > corporate goals, looking beyond mere profit from services rendered towards > (say) greater acquisition value. If so, we may have little to discuss. We > are our own communities - not Wikia's - and we have our own needs. If you > do > not intend to provide a service that meets them, we must seek it elsewhere. > > -- > Laurence "GreenReaper" Parry > http://greenreaper.co.uk/ - http://wikifur.com/ > "Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you drunk your fill?" > > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > -- Chad Lupkes http://chadlupkes.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080607/4807dccf/attachment.html From havac at wookieepedia.com Sat Jun 7 23:10:09 2008 From: havac at wookieepedia.com (Havac) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 18:10:09 -0500 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style Message-ID: <41938c260806071610x7721e219vfa54c22751b6ce75@mail.gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:11:29 -0700 > From: "Danny Horn" > Subject: Re: [Wikia-l] Wikia new style > To: "Central Wikia Mailing List" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The ads won't actually break tables like the one on that Yu-Gi-Oh page. If > the 300x250 ad would break a table at the top of the page, then you'll see > a > banner ad under the edit bar instead of a square ad. Essentially, the edit > bar and the banner ad that you currently see on Monaco will switch places, > with the edit bar on top and the banner underneath. > > This change is a huge deal. It's not something that we're taking lightly at > all. What you're seeing right now is the result of months of conversations, > tests and compromises. We looked at a lot of different options, including > most of the ones that people are asking about. You're seeing the end result > of that long process -- the best balance that we've been able to come up > with so far. > > We have to change things in order to make Wikia financially stable. It > would > be great if we could host wikis with no advertising at all, or just have > Google ads running in the footer. Unfortunately, Google ads in the footer > pay pennies a click, and nobody clicks. We need to be able to attract real > advertisers, who pay for impressions rather than clicks. > > Impressions work on a pageview basis -- the advertiser will pay for people > to look at the ad, whether they click or not. But they won't pay for > impressions if the ad is hidden at the bottom of the page, because they > don't know whether people are scrolling down to look at the ad. The ad > needs > to be visible on the screen when people first come to the page, so the > advertisers know that they're paying for real impressions. > > So how do you design a wiki page that has a 300x250 box at the top of the > screen? Either you put it in the header, which pushes the entire content > area down, or you put it in the sidebar so that it squishes the content > area > over... or you put it in the article area, and allow the content to wrap > around it. > > We tried out all three versions, and I think putting the box into the > article actually creates the least disruption. A huge header would make the > content disappear to the bottom. A huge sidebar would create a big blank > area on the left side of the screen as you scroll down. Having the box at > the top right means that the only space that's being used for the ad is the > 300x250 box itself. > > So what happens on Tuesday is basically a big test. Once things go live on > Tuesday, there are a few things that we're going to be looking at very > closely: > > * whether the system actually works the way we expect it to, and it doesn't > break page designs > > * the actual impact on ad sales and click-through rates > > * the community reaction -- how people feel when the changes are actually > live on the site > > * the overall impact on readers and contributors, which we can evaluate by > looking at the stats on pageviews, edits and active editors. > > There are a couple of possible predictions that people could make. One > prediction is that the change won't make any difference to people at all -- > that it's just exchanging one ad shape for another, and people will adapt > their designs around the new format. Another prediction is that the change > will drive people away, that every wiki will lose their core contributors, > and that all of the wikis will die within a week. > > But those are the extreme cases, and it's not likely that either of those > will happen. It won't be a dream or a nightmare. Some people will hate it, > some people will like it better, and some people won't care. We can't know > for sure what's going to happen until we try it out. > > Once we turn it on, then we can start evaluating the impact, and making > changes. The parts of this that work well will stay; the parts that are > completely broken will have to change. One version of "completely broken" > is > that people read and contribute less. Right now, everything is theoretical. > It's easy to say "this will be fine" or "this will drive every user away". > We have to try it out and see what actually happens. > > I know how important everybody's wiki is, and how connected you feel to > your > wiki. I started Muppet Wiki in 2005, and I ended up working for Wikia > because I figured out that I love working on wikis more than anything else > in the world. There are a lot of wikis on Wikia that I'm tight with now, > but > Muppet Wiki is my home -- that's the community where I've put in hours of > my > own time every day, every week, for two and a half years. When I've felt > like that community is threatened, I've fought like a tiger for it. > > So I'm paying a lot of attention to how this plays out. If it really hurts > the wikis, we'll make changes. We just need to see the impact in order to > know what's true and what's hypothetical. > > > -- Danny > > > User:Toughpigs > Community Development Manager, Wikia So multiple angles have been considered, and the end decision was that the most intrusive type of ad would really be the least intrusive, because it would be sitting *in the content* and not create a wide sidebar or a big header. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that. You have people -- real people who use the system, not within-Wikia yes men -- saying, "No, really, we'd rather have either of the other options." I think you should take that into consideration rather than blowing it off. Do you honestly think "some people will like it better"? *Like* it? Some people might be indifferent, but just who is going to look at an ad sitting inside an article and think, "Man, this is great!"? I think you need a new focus group. When it starts sitting in the content, that's when people start asking, "Is nothing sacred?" Apparently, nothing is. The message I'm getting is "The Wikia sales department is going to be running all your wikis now. They control how it looks and what's in your content space." Because there's no other player in this who gains from this move. How long until Wikia sales starts dictating content? "We get more page hits when you use the word 'sexy' in an article. You have to use 'sexy' at least twice an article now." "We can sell more ads if we have more pages, so you're going to have to split all your long articles up into ten-kilobyte chunks so we can get more total page hits." When you spend "months" on discussing options, and you settle on the one guaranteed to offend the most users, that's the only conclusion I can come to. I'm really disappointed with what seems to be a total disregard by Wikia for the people actually making them money. We're told it's just a test. Well, sure it is, but when the only response to concerns expressed by Greyman is "Well, they'll just get used to it. Shut up and stop questioning our decision," I don't think it's very likely that Wikia will be willing to decide that their test went poorly. "Well, it didn't burn down and no wiki packed up and left inside a week, so clearly they'll just get used to it and the massive opposition will die down." Wikia appears to have already made up its mind how it's going to be, and everyone is just going to fall into line. I don't think that's an attitude that's going to get Wikia anywhere, but that's the attitude I've observed over the last several months in every announced-two-days-in-advance, supposedly-just-a-test-but-really-irrevocable, made-by-Wikia-staff-with-no-real-input-from-the-end-user-community major change, and I find it an appalling way to treat the people you rely on. It's not the 1880s, and there aren't waves of skilled Irish wiki-editors coming off the boat every day to replace the editors you've driven off with indifferent, domineering treatment. I'd be ashamed to run a company this way. Havac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080607/2e062eba/attachment-0001.html From twotailedfox at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 23:34:26 2008 From: twotailedfox at gmail.com (TwoTailedFox) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 00:34:26 +0100 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia's New Style In-Reply-To: <41938c260806071610x7721e219vfa54c22751b6ce75@mail.gmail.com> References: <41938c260806071610x7721e219vfa54c22751b6ce75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Monaco, there's a frikkin' Ad Banner at the top of the page. That's fine, people see it. Start putting it -in- content, then things get ugly. Re-design, so Ads display where the Search bar is, pushing down the menu. That's much less intrusive. On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Havac wrote: > > Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:11:29 -0700 >> From: "Danny Horn" >> Subject: Re: [Wikia-l] Wikia new style >> To: "Central Wikia Mailing List" >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> The ads won't actually break tables like the one on that Yu-Gi-Oh page. If >> the 300x250 ad would break a table at the top of the page, then you'll see >> a >> banner ad under the edit bar instead of a square ad. Essentially, the edit >> bar and the banner ad that you currently see on Monaco will switch places, >> with the edit bar on top and the banner underneath. >> >> This change is a huge deal. It's not something that we're taking lightly >> at >> all. What you're seeing right now is the result of months of >> conversations, >> tests and compromises. We looked at a lot of different options, including >> most of the ones that people are asking about. You're seeing the end >> result >> of that long process -- the best balance that we've been able to come up >> with so far. >> >> We have to change things in order to make Wikia financially stable. It >> would >> be great if we could host wikis with no advertising at all, or just have >> Google ads running in the footer. Unfortunately, Google ads in the footer >> pay pennies a click, and nobody clicks. We need to be able to attract real >> advertisers, who pay for impressions rather than clicks. >> >> Impressions work on a pageview basis -- the advertiser will pay for people >> to look at the ad, whether they click or not. But they won't pay for >> impressions if the ad is hidden at the bottom of the page, because they >> don't know whether people are scrolling down to look at the ad. The ad >> needs >> to be visible on the screen when people first come to the page, so the >> advertisers know that they're paying for real impressions. >> >> So how do you design a wiki page that has a 300x250 box at the top of the >> screen? Either you put it in the header, which pushes the entire content >> area down, or you put it in the sidebar so that it squishes the content >> area >> over... or you put it in the article area, and allow the content to wrap >> around it. >> >> We tried out all three versions, and I think putting the box into the >> article actually creates the least disruption. A huge header would make >> the >> content disappear to the bottom. A huge sidebar would create a big blank >> area on the left side of the screen as you scroll down. Having the box at >> the top right means that the only space that's being used for the ad is >> the >> 300x250 box itself. >> >> So what happens on Tuesday is basically a big test. Once things go live on >> Tuesday, there are a few things that we're going to be looking at very >> closely: >> >> * whether the system actually works the way we expect it to, and it >> doesn't >> break page designs >> >> * the actual impact on ad sales and click-through rates >> >> * the community reaction -- how people feel when the changes are actually >> live on the site >> >> * the overall impact on readers and contributors, which we can evaluate by >> looking at the stats on pageviews, edits and active editors. >> >> There are a couple of possible predictions that people could make. One >> prediction is that the change won't make any difference to people at all >> -- >> that it's just exchanging one ad shape for another, and people will adapt >> their designs around the new format. Another prediction is that the change >> will drive people away, that every wiki will lose their core contributors, >> and that all of the wikis will die within a week. >> >> But those are the extreme cases, and it's not likely that either of those >> will happen. It won't be a dream or a nightmare. Some people will hate it, >> some people will like it better, and some people won't care. We can't know >> for sure what's going to happen until we try it out. >> >> Once we turn it on, then we can start evaluating the impact, and making >> changes. The parts of this that work well will stay; the parts that are >> completely broken will have to change. One version of "completely broken" >> is >> that people read and contribute less. Right now, everything is >> theoretical. >> It's easy to say "this will be fine" or "this will drive every user away". >> We have to try it out and see what actually happens. >> >> I know how important everybody's wiki is, and how connected you feel to >> your >> wiki. I started Muppet Wiki in 2005, and I ended up working for Wikia >> because I figured out that I love working on wikis more than anything else >> in the world. There are a lot of wikis on Wikia that I'm tight with now, >> but >> Muppet Wiki is my home -- that's the community where I've put in hours of >> my >> own time every day, every week, for two and a half years. When I've felt >> like that community is threatened, I've fought like a tiger for it. >> >> So I'm paying a lot of attention to how this plays out. If it really hurts >> the wikis, we'll make changes. We just need to see the impact in order to >> know what's true and what's hypothetical. >> >> >> -- Danny >> >> >> User:Toughpigs >> Community Development Manager, Wikia >> > > > > So multiple angles have been considered, and the end decision was that the > most intrusive type of ad would really be the least intrusive, because it > would be sitting *in the content* and not create a wide sidebar or a big > header. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that. You have people -- real people > who use the system, not within-Wikia yes men -- saying, "No, really, we'd > rather have either of the other options." I think you should take that into > consideration rather than blowing it off. Do you honestly think "some people > will like it better"? *Like* it? Some people might be indifferent, but just > who is going to look at an ad sitting inside an article and think, "Man, > this is great!"? I think you need a new focus group. > > When it starts sitting in the content, that's when people start asking, "Is > nothing sacred?" Apparently, nothing is. The message I'm getting is "The > Wikia sales department is going to be running all your wikis now. They > control how it looks and what's in your content space." Because there's no > other player in this who gains from this move. How long until Wikia sales > starts dictating content? "We get more page hits when you use the word > 'sexy' in an article. You have to use 'sexy' at least twice an article now." > "We can sell more ads if we have more pages, so you're going to have to > split all your long articles up into ten-kilobyte chunks so we can get more > total page hits." When you spend "months" on discussing options, and you > settle on the one guaranteed to offend the most users, that's the only > conclusion I can come to. > > I'm really disappointed with what seems to be a total disregard by Wikia > for the people actually making them money. We're told it's just a test. > Well, sure it is, but when the only response to concerns expressed by > Greyman is "Well, they'll just get used to it. Shut up and stop questioning > our decision," I don't think it's very likely that Wikia will be willing to > decide that their test went poorly. "Well, it didn't burn down and no wiki > packed up and left inside a week, so clearly they'll just get used to it and > the massive opposition will die down." Wikia appears to have already made up > its mind how it's going to be, and everyone is just going to fall into line. > > I don't think that's an attitude that's going to get Wikia anywhere, but > that's the attitude I've observed over the last several months in every > announced-two-days-in-advance, > supposedly-just-a-test-but-really-irrevocable, > made-by-Wikia-staff-with-no-real-input-from-the-end-user-community major > change, and I find it an appalling way to treat the people you rely on. It's > not the 1880s, and there aren't waves of skilled Irish wiki-editors coming > off the boat every day to replace the editors you've driven off with > indifferent, domineering treatment. I'd be ashamed to run a company this > way. > > Havac > > _______________________________________________ > Wikia-l mailing list > Wikia-l at wikia.com > http://lists.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/wikia-l > -- "I had a handle on life, but then it broke" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/wikia-l/attachments/20080608/a439580e/attachment.html From dawormie at gmail.com Sun Jun 8 03:24:15 2008 From: dawormie at gmail.com (Victor) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 13:24:15 +1000 Subject: [Wikia-l] Wikia new style In-Reply-To: <801553ab0806071507t5661e718gee37bc4e70beec83@mail.gmail.com> References: <41938c260806061841p42e58a75w6e5bfa5aca6e5eb4@mail.gmail.com> <801553ab0806071507t5661e718gee37bc4e70beec83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Greetings all, I'm by far the most articulate person around but I'm confused on some points. At one